Auxillary Gutters

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stephena

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So my question is how close to a panel, MCC, switchgear, or any service where you use a gutter to supplement the wiring space do you have to be to have it considered a gutter and not a metal wireway? The reason being is because a wireway is technically not a raceway and therefore 230.7 doesn't apply to the auxillary gutter so I can mix BC, feeder, or control wires with the service conductors. Granted it isn't a safe practice, but technically it is code. Any comments on this?
 
Color me CRAZY:dunce:...but in the 2014 NEC I view this as a Raceway and I am sure others will agree. In terms of the differences, we only need to compare Article 366 and Article 376 to see the limitations and differences in each.

"Raceway. An enclosed channel of metallic or nonmetallic materials designed expressly for holding wires, cables, or bus-bars, with additional functions as permitted in this Code. "




 
An auxiliary gutter is not subject to all of the limitations that apply to raceways and other wireways, but that does not tell us for sure that even it is not a raceway.
Introducing the additional term "wireway" only serves to confuse things.
IMHO the only place where the code allows service and non service wires to mix is in the service disconnect OCPD enclosure.
 
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Article 100:

Raceway. An enclosed channel of metal or nonmetallic ma-
terials designed expressly for holding wires, cables, or bus-
bars, with additional functions as permitted in this Code.
Raceways include, but are not limited to, rigid metal conduit,
rigid nonmetallic conduit, intermediate metal conduit, liq-
uidtight flexible conduit, flexible metallic tubing, flexible
metal conduit, electrical nonmetallic tubing, electrical metallic
tubing, underfloor raceways, cellular concrete floor raceways,
cellular metal floor raceways, surface raceways, wireways,
and busways.
Click to expand...
 
Auxiliary Gutters have their requirements, it is stated in Article 366 along with it's limitations. However, in my opinion it clearly aligns itself with the definition of a raceway in Article 100 so unless it states differently in it's respective article (as it does) then to me it's a raceway.

At that moment I get a call where someone asked me is an MC Cable a raceway and I say NOPE...it's a factory assembled Cable ...just so they are CLEAR:angel:
 
infinity said:
Article 100:
Click to expand...
My responses are on the 2014 NEC and I believe the reason for the change was to create a more inclusive definition without having to state every electrical component that qualifies as a Raceway in a list format.

However, I can't put in my signature line that my statements are on the 2014 NEC..because I don't seem to be able to create a signature line...:sick:
 
MasterTheNEC said:
My responses are on the 2014 NEC and I believe the reason for the change was to create a more inclusive definition without having to state every electrical component that qualifies as a Raceway in a list format.

However, I can't put in my signature line that my statements are on the 2014 NEC..because I don't seem to be able to create a signature line...:sick:
Click to expand...

Go to the "Forum Actions" button, upper left, pull down options and click on "edit profile". On the left, click on "edit signature".
 
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MasterTheNEC said:
Color me CRAZY:dunce:...but in the 2014 NEC I view this as a Raceway and I am sure others will agree. In terms of the differences, we only need to compare Article 366 and Article 376 to see the limitations and differences in each.

"Raceway. An enclosed channel of metallic or nonmetallic materials designed expressly for holding wires, cables, or bus-bars, with additional functions as permitted in this Code. "
Click to expand...

It isn't a raceway though. Even if you look in the 2014 handbook and read the blue note of the scope of article 366 it says since gutters are not a raceway 230.7 doesn't apply.
 
stephena said:
It isn't a raceway though. Even if you look in the 2014 handbook and read the blue note of the scope of article 366 it says since gutters are not a raceway 230.7 doesn't apply.
Click to expand...

Stephen, the commentary in the blue sections of the handbook is an opinion and not code.
While informitive, it is not enforcable and is open to interpretatation.

The following are opinions from an article from IAEI which explain the differences in a way that makes sense to me. Note that it says that a gutter is a raceway, it just has a special rules.

http://iaeimagazine.org/magazine/2014/07/11/articles-366-through-364/

The unique feature of a gutter is found in 366.2, where we find the definition of a gutter. It states that it is to be used as a supplemental wiring space for other equipment. So, from this language, we know that if an enclosure is listed as a gutter, then it must be installed in combination with meter centers, distribution centers, switchboards, etc.; it can?t be used as a stand-alone wireway or raceway.
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Some of the items you need to watch for on Gutters are found in 366.12 Uses Not Permitted, which states that no switches, overcurrent devices, appliances or similar equipment shall be enclosed, and the gutter shall not extend more than 30 feet from the equipment to which it is serving as an auxiliary. Another item unique to gutters is the securing and supporting found in 366.30. Gutters are to be supported and secured throughout the entire length at intervals not to exceed 5 feet. Notice it doesn?t just say supported, but also secured, so this is often an additional requirement. Supporting means it can rest on a support without being attached; securing means it has to be attached.
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The argument is always this, if an auxiliary gutter is to add supplement space for say a panel enclosure...and the enclosure by its nature permits service conductors in to terminate..thus permitting service,feeder, and branch to co mingle....why not in a auxiliary gutter...that's the debate because in a wireway its not permitted with clearly no debate:)
 
jumper said:
Stephen, the commentary in the blue sections of the handbook is an opinion and not code.
While informitive, it is not enforcable and is open to interpretatation.

The following are opinions from an article from IAEI which explain the differences in a way that makes sense to me. Note that it says that a gutter is a raceway, it just has a special rules.

http://iaeimagazine.org/magazine/2014/07/11/articles-366-through-364/
Click to expand...




Thank you for your opinion. That's why I post these things so we can discuss them and I can gain a better understanding in order to be the best most knowledgeable electrician I can be. My only question now is why they would allow a blue note to make a statement that would contradict code. Thank you for the web address on gutters. I'll be reading that right now.
 
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