Avoiding 200.7(c) violation

[tallguy]

Anyone have any innovative ideas for working around 200.7(c) without pulling a new wire? Mike's drawing captures the issue well:
View attachment 1972

The run is about 50', with about 40' of that under concrete, with who knows how many elbows -- at least seven judging by the obstacles that it must negotiate from panel to recep. Digging it up is completely out of the question, and pulling a red #12 (or anything else for that matter) through there seems likely to be an exercise in futility.

A bit more detail: currently there are six conductors, a pair each of black, white, and green #12. One set is in use on a 120v circuit, the other is a spare (unused). Thrilled that the spare conductors are there, except that white is the wrong color for the ungrounded conductor of this new 240v pump circuit... and 200.7(c) puts the kaibosh on my preferred solution.

If push comes to shove, I'll just have to use the two blacks and be stuck with just one shared circuit between the 240v pump and 120v devices, but would prefer to have two circuits if feasible.

Any other options... besides liberal amounts of red nail polish in an attempt to dupe the AHJ?

 

[480sparky]

Ask the AHJ for an official okee-dokee to reidentify the whites. Worth a shot. I'm sure many of the inspectors I work with would OK it knowing what I would be up against.

 

[tallguy]

Ask the AHJ for an official okee-dokee to reidentify the whites. Worth a shot. I'm sure many of the inspectors I work with would OK it knowing what I would be up against.

You've touched on what I had originally considered posting, which was basically "If you wanted to make a blatant violation of 200.7(c), how would you go about asking permission to do so in order to maximize the probability of a favorable response?"

That's not exactly an NEC question though....

:grin:

 

[480sparky]

You've touched on what I had originally considered posting, which was basically "If you wanted to make a blatant violation of 200.7(c), how would you go about asking permission to do so in order to maximize the probability of a favorable response?"

That's not exactly an NEC question though....

:grin:

Violation or not, not all inspectors are members of the NEC Gestapo. Most are pretty nice people. Given the situation, they may very well allow you to reidentify the whites.

 

[peter d]

Any other options... besides liberal amounts of red nail polish in an attempt to dupe the AHJ?

Red nail polish? That's the first time I've ever heard that suggested as a means to reidentify a wire. That means you'd have to go to the cosmetics aisle and buy some, or steal some from your wife or girlfriend. Either way it sounds dangerous.

 

[tallguy]

Red nail polish? That's the first time I've ever heard that suggested as a means to reidentify a wire. That means you'd have to go to the cosmetics aisle and buy some, or steal some from your wife or girlfriend. Either way it sounds dangerous.

Not to mention that it's an accelerant...

 

[acrwc10]

Red nail polish? That's the first time I've ever heard that suggested as a means to reidentify a wire. That means you'd have to go to the cosmetics aisle and buy some, or steal some from your wife or girlfriend. Either way it sounds dangerous.

Only if your wife finds your girlfriends nail polish in your work truck.

 

[480sparky]

Only if your wife finds your girlfriends nail polish in your work truck.

The wife? I'd worry more about the other guys on the jobsite would have to say if I pulled out a bottle of nail polish.....

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

90.4, the second paragraph is probably a good paragraph to show the inspector when you request for permission.
Just remember that special permission requires a signature. The EI may not be the AHJ, which means he will need to speak to the AHJ and get his signature.

I have done this 3 times in the last 5 years.

If you were to come to me with the above request, I would petition our AHJ for you...it is not such a hard request in my opinion. The fact that you would even request it would impress me.

 

[ultramegabob]

if you get the go ahead, use heat shrink to re-identify your colors, its readily available in black and red, and you can get many other colors also.

 

[infinity]

50' of conduit and you can't re-pull in the proper conductors? I would rip out the old junk and pull in new conductors. If there is an unknown number of elbows I would use stranded conductors.

 

[tallguy]

90.4, the second paragraph is probably a good paragraph to show the inspector when you request for permission.
Just remember that special permission requires a signature. The EI may not be the AHJ, which means he will need to speak to the AHJ and get his signature.

Thanks for the pointer to 90.4

If you were to come to me with the above request, I would petition our AHJ for you...it is not such a hard request in my opinion. The fact that you would even request it would impress me.

Thanks... that's a nice little affirmation.

50' of conduit and you can't re-pull in the proper conductors? I would rip out the old junk and pull in new conductors. If there is an unknown number of elbows I would use stranded conductors.

I've never done anything even remotely difficult with conduit, so this is the voice of inexperience talking here... I would think pulling the existing solid out would be a major hassle in and of itself. Risk/cost vs. reward is pretty low here...

 

[tallguy]

if you get the go ahead, use heat shrink to re-identify your colors, its readily available in black and red, and you can get many other colors also.

Ideal to use heat shrink, sure... Are you concerned with tape falling off? Maybe that's why 200.7(c) is there in the first place though...

 

[MichaelJ]

Is it a code violation to identify a net (grounded conductor) with color tape where several circuits run in same conduit Example: (1- blk and white w/ blk tape & 1 blue and white w/blue tape & 1 red and white w/red tape all in 1 conduit) for the purpose of identifying hot and net pair for 120v circuits. i Know you can get white wire with color stripe but has to be special ordered in this area.

 

[tortuga]

I 2nd the Heat shrink. I would not approve of tape.

 

[tallguy]

Is it a code violation to identify a net (grounded conductor) with color tape where several circuits run in same conduit Example: (1- blk and white w/ blk tape & 1 blue and white w/blue tape & 1 red and white w/red tape all in 1 conduit) for the purpose of identifying hot and net pair for 120v circuits. i Know you can get white wire with color stripe but has to be special ordered in this area.

It's certainly not a violation of 200.7(c)...

I vaguely seem to recall a discussion that grounded conductors don't need to be identified at all actually other than being white or gray. Maybe someone else can confirm?