Back to Back Receptacles

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Sergio Vargas

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I will need so advise to solve this problem.
In a project of a condo building, I have a situation where I have back to back receptacles on a demising wall. These boxes are located in two mirror image bath rooms and the outlets are in the same spot on both walls, considered back to back. The code does not allow back to back's and I will have to move one on either side or can I move it up.

Since I have a mirror on one side and a knee wall separating the vanity with the jacuzzi on the other, the only thing I could do is to raise the outlet.

Please advise if I should raise the outlet and by how much. :-?

Is there a minimum distance required on how far apart they need to be so that they are not considered being back to back and still comply with the receptacle required for the vanity.
 
This is more a "fire" code.... I assume you're talking about to fire rated walls?

It would really depend on the rating of the wall as a system... 'No back to back' - is more a rule of thumb than a "CODE" per se. There are ways around it, but moving the box up will not help... Have the framers put a stud between them and use a intumesant fire pad.

Take a look at pages 5-6 of this, infact print the whole thing and have it handy for the inspection for when the guy says you can't have boxes closer than 24" - then roll up the paper into a small bat - then hit him with it. :grin: (Lightly....)
 
e57 said:
This is more a "fire" code.... I assume you're talking about to fire rated walls?

It would really depend on the rating of the wall as a system... 'No back to back' - is more a rule of thumb than a "CODE" per se. There are ways around it, but moving the box up will not help... Have the framers put a stud between them and use a intumesant fire pad.

Take a look at pages 5-6 of this, infact print the whole thing and have it handy for the inspection for when the guy says you can't have boxes closer than 24" - then roll up the paper into a small bat - then hit him with it. :grin: (Lightly....)
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Good answer from a building inspector's point of veiw - except the 24" IS more of a code issue (building) than a rule of thumb. And...most inspectors don't take kindly to getting smacked with a rolled up paper! ;)

I've lost track of how many electricans I've turned on to puddy pads - they save the day pretty often around here. I guess most of the electricians I work with don't read this forum...too bad!
 
Darren Emery - When I said, "'No back to back' - is more a rule of thumb than a "CODE" per se." I meant that no "back to back" is mentioned in the code. No outlet closer than '24" horizontal' is, unless you cover it by some other listed or prescribed method. Unfortunately, this "No back to back" language comes from the instuctions on one of the listed products for this type of use.

And I'm sure the OP knows I'm kidding and meant it figuratively when I said hit the inspector with it. :grin:
 
You can use fire pads in this situation, but it must say in the pad listing that this application is ok. Allied makes a box that only requires 3" of seperation and no stud between them.

Be very careful on mulitfamily projects. If you use fire pads they must also have a sound transmission rating of 50 or higher and not all of them have it. You could have them do a field test and it only has to be a 42+, but the building has to be done to do this test and that could be an expensive fix.
 
Back to Back Boxes

Back to Back Boxes

The boxes that I have are back to back but they have about 1 1/2" of space between them. They have fire pads. Would this be acceptable or would I have to move them.
 
Back to Back Pictures of Outlet Boxes

Back to Back Pictures of Outlet Boxes

Please take a look and advise if this application is acceptable.
 
I thought back to back restrictions were only in effect if the boxes were tied together.:confused: I don't see an issue with seperate boxes.


This is not advise, only an opinion.
 
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In this pic you appear to have the box and a 2" ring clear through both rock lasyers to the surface for the receptical?

The way it is installed, the area behind each box is overlapping. (This what I meant about that 'rule of thumb') The listing for the fire puddy pad doesn't help you here...... It would if you moved one box left or right, and followed the instructions for the puddy pads that you are using and had them on hand to show the inspector that the manufacturer had that intent in its listing. As well as having a copy of the building code that covers this situation in you jurisdiction to point out how you're covering it. And cover the area of the hanger bar that the box is attached to. You may have a chance at your inspectors discretion..... (At this point you don't)

And since it looks like you have some rock repair in your future, it would seem to me that this would've/shouldve been caught in the rough, and taken care of then? So whats this - a retro-active rough?

FYI the listing on most puddy pads require the use of "Steel Cover Plates" - you appear to be using a nylon. You can order white painted steel ones.
 
Sergio Vargas said:
The boxes that I have are back to back but they have about 1 1/2" of space between them. They have fire pads. Would this be acceptable or would I have to move them.
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This is not acceptable. Boxes must have 24" of seperation and one stud in between them. If the firepad listing says that you can use the pads in lew of the seperation then it could be.
 
Back to Back

Back to Back

I am planing to move all 75 of them. They will be moved up, since I have no room to move to the sides. On one side, I have a Mirror, and on the other, I have a knee wall divider for the jacuzzi. I will be moving them up just enough so they are not back to back.
 
Sergio Vargas said:
I am planing to move all 75 of them. They will be moved up, since I have no room to move to the sides. On one side, I have a Mirror, and on the other, I have a knee wall divider for the jacuzzi. I will be moving them up just enough so they are not back to back.
Click to expand...

If they are in the same stud bay they are still considered in violation, up and down does not change the 24" horizontal requirement.

Now 3M does say "When the moldable putty pad outlet box protective material is used as directed, the horizontal separation between outlet boxes on opposite sides of the wall may be less than 24" provided that the outlet boxes are not installed back to back
 
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DaveBowden said:
would a box with a two hour rating be acceptable for back to back applications?
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Hmmmmm..... I think it would be. Just noticing this post.... Yeah I would guess so - close the 2-hour envelope in much the same way one would with a recessed can?
 
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