Backfeeding 30A dryer "outlet"
- Thread starter kunzio
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Backfeeding 30A dryer "outlet"
It is an NEC violation.
You have to make a male to male cord another NEC violation and a danger to anyone that unplugs it.
[ October 10, 2005, 06:37 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]
You can kill utility workers.
It is an NEC violation.
You have to make a male to male cord another NEC violation and a danger to anyone that unplugs it.
[ October 10, 2005, 06:37 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Backfeeding 30A dryer "outlet"
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: Backfeeding 30A dryer "outlet"
Code violations aside, doesn't common sense factor in here as well?
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Backfeeding 30A dryer "outlet"
Wake up on the wrong side of the bed today Pete?
Wake up on the wrong side of the bed today Pete?
Re: Backfeeding 30A dryer "outlet"
It does seem obvious that this would be an unacceptable practice. My intent is not only to find sufficent code references, it is to give myself more reasons to tell a co-worker, and a friend that this shouldn't be done.
"Iwire" Where are you relating the transer switch article to? Are you pointing out that there is a possiblity that once the utility power is regained, there could be multiple sources?
It does seem obvious that this would be an unacceptable practice. My intent is not only to find sufficent code references, it is to give myself more reasons to tell a co-worker, and a friend that this shouldn't be done.
"Iwire" Where are you relating the transer switch article to? Are you pointing out that there is a possiblity that once the utility power is regained, there could be multiple sources?
sandsnow
Senior Member
- Location
- Southern California
Re: Backfeeding 30A dryer "outlet"
It WAS an accepted practice in the old days here in the tracts to hot check houses.
Some things take a while to die.
It WAS an accepted practice in the old days here in the tracts to hot check houses.
Some things take a while to die.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Backfeeding 30A dryer "outlet"
Back feeding the outlet as you describe does not prevent interconnection of normal and alternate sources of supply.
That in my opinion is a clear violation of 702.6
If you where to back feed the outlet that little 5KW generator could be kicking out kilovolts on the primary side of the utility transformer.
I was not really concerned what the utility voltage would do to the generator when power was restored.
No I am pointing out that Article 702 is the Article of the code for optional standby systems and in order to connect those optional stand by systems 702.6 requires the transfer equipment to be designed and installed so as to prevent the inadvertent interconnection of normal and alternate sources of supply in any operation of the transfer equipment.
Back feeding the outlet as you describe does not prevent interconnection of normal and alternate sources of supply.
That in my opinion is a clear violation of 702.6
If you where to back feed the outlet that little 5KW generator could be kicking out kilovolts on the primary side of the utility transformer.
I was not really concerned what the utility voltage would do to the generator when power was restored.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Backfeeding 30A dryer "outlet"
Far too many utilty people have been killed over this.You could and should get charged with murder if you do this.Either do this in a safe way or use cords ran to generator
Far too many utilty people have been killed over this.You could and should get charged with murder if you do this.Either do this in a safe way or use cords ran to generator
Re: Backfeeding 30A dryer "outlet"
Kunzio, the code sections are provided as well as the hazzards to those who are restoring the power, this should be the ammo you were looking for.
Roger
Jim, good post, concise and to the point.
Kunzio, the code sections are provided as well as the hazzards to those who are restoring the power, this should be the ammo you were looking for.
Roger
bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: Backfeeding 30A dryer "outlet"
More people died in Florida last year after the 4 hurricanes from injuries sustained from connecting or operating generators than they did from the hurricanes themselves.
Granted most of these deaths were due to carbon-monoxide posioning, there were several electrocutions and fires started from backfeeding utilities.
More people died in Florida last year after the 4 hurricanes from injuries sustained from connecting or operating generators than they did from the hurricanes themselves.
Granted most of these deaths were due to carbon-monoxide posioning, there were several electrocutions and fires started from backfeeding utilities.
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: Backfeeding 30A dryer "outlet"
Yeah, it seems like that's the case. I'll let you know what side I choose in the morning.Originally posted by iwire:
Wake up on the wrong side of the bed today Pete?
Re: Backfeeding 30A dryer "outlet"
IF
You ever REALLY GOTTA do this (30 below, road has 6 foot of snow kids are freezing etc etc)
THEN
pull the meter put piece of plywood across it
NOW you can jury rig the generator.
It is STILL real dangerous to use a male plug and plug to dryer.
BETTER is to run extension from teh generator to the load srved (furnace) and disconnect normal power. BUT if you are not an electrician or at least competent at this stuff then maybe you should not be messing with this stuff.
BEST have standby power installed by a competent qualified person - maybe even an electricain
Dan Bentler
IF
You ever REALLY GOTTA do this (30 below, road has 6 foot of snow kids are freezing etc etc)
THEN
pull the meter put piece of plywood across it
NOW you can jury rig the generator.
It is STILL real dangerous to use a male plug and plug to dryer.
BETTER is to run extension from teh generator to the load srved (furnace) and disconnect normal power. BUT if you are not an electrician or at least competent at this stuff then maybe you should not be messing with this stuff.
BEST have standby power installed by a competent qualified person - maybe even an electricain
Dan Bentler
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
Re: Backfeeding 30A dryer "outlet"
The article claimed that a number of cases where backfed generators were blamed for utility worker deaths turned out on closer examination to have been something else entirely.
Is there any actual source of data on this?
It still seems like an unsafe practice to me regardless of whether or not anyone has actually died from it.
I have long believed this but an article I read not all that long ago claimed this is an urban myth and that there are only a couple of cases on record where a backfed generator caused a utility worker's death and that none of them were from HO's doing this.
The article claimed that a number of cases where backfed generators were blamed for utility worker deaths turned out on closer examination to have been something else entirely.
Is there any actual source of data on this?
It still seems like an unsafe practice to me regardless of whether or not anyone has actually died from it.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Backfeeding 30A dryer "outlet"
What is hard to understand ? transformers work both ways.You might very well liven up a wire laying on the ground.Even one death over this is too many.You might destroy some family when you kill there dad
What is hard to understand ? transformers work both ways.You might very well liven up a wire laying on the ground.Even one death over this is too many.You might destroy some family when you kill there dad
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
Re: Backfeeding 30A dryer "outlet"
I agree it is unsafe.
I asked if there was any substantiation to the claim that this practice has actually killed utility workers as has been claimed repeatedly.
I agree it is unsafe.
I asked if there was any substantiation to the claim that this practice has actually killed utility workers as has been claimed repeatedly.
Re: Backfeeding 30A dryer "outlet"
Mr. Sonra:
It is hard to find information on this case. Someone wrote in a post at ECNonline about an electrician [utility compamy] who was electrocuted in Young Harris, north Georgia. Young Harris does exist and there is one line in the Atlanta Constitution shortly after hurricane Ivan.
But it is an example of the type that you are looking for. Evidently, they don't have a local newspaper on line in that rural area. Perhaps an e-mail to the local sherrif or the utility company involved would produce results but I didn't go that far.
No name was given.
~Peter
[ October 11, 2005, 10:11 PM: Message edited by: peter ]
Mr. Sonra:
It is hard to find information on this case. Someone wrote in a post at ECNonline about an electrician [utility compamy] who was electrocuted in Young Harris, north Georgia. Young Harris does exist and there is one line in the Atlanta Constitution shortly after hurricane Ivan.
But it is an example of the type that you are looking for. Evidently, they don't have a local newspaper on line in that rural area. Perhaps an e-mail to the local sherrif or the utility company involved would produce results but I didn't go that far.
No name was given.
~Peter
[ October 11, 2005, 10:11 PM: Message edited by: peter ]
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