Bad Luck with Electrician in Central America

[eeee]

I was curious how an electrician can wire a house, put in a new circuit breaker panel and manage to blow up the motor of a $200 light/fan, a brand new stove and a small TV.

I was told he may have connected 220 to 110.

I think he could have tested all circuits with an ammeter before connecting wires to avoid this problem. Unfortunately in Central America, the electricians are not licensed I believe and are not warrantied (this I know).

I was just interested in knowing if my solution is best so that I can look out for it on my job.

 

[tshea]

Re: Bad Luck with Electrician in Central America

Originally posted by eeee:
I was curious how an electrician can wire a house, put in a new circuit breaker panel and manage to blow up the motor of a $200 light/fan, a brand new stove and a small TV.

I was told he may have connected 220 to 110.

I think he could have tested all circuits with an ammeter before connecting wires to avoid this problem. Unfortunately in Central America, the electricians are not licensed I believe and are not warrantied (this I know).

I was just interested in knowing if my solution is best so that I can look out for it on my job.

Buyer beware!
BTW I think you meant voltmeter, not ammeter.

 

[mhulbert]

Re: Bad Luck with Electrician in Central America

OK, I will fess up to doing this once, and I'm not even close to central America. I do some work at a remote Boy Scout camp, and they had a new cabin that another person had roughed in, under my supervision. There was a year between rough in and this visit. Well, what was orginally a 120V sewage lift pump was being upgraded to a 220V unit. No problem, I'll just pull the 1p, 20A CB and put a 2P, 20A in its place, re-ID the white wire and we're good to go. So I do all this and fire it up. Pump works great. Go to wash my hands in the bathroom (sewage pumps are dirty!) and I hit the light switch and the bulbs both burn out at the same time....imagine that! After thinking for a minute, the oh $&1+ felling goes over me. We wired the cabin so that if the breaker for the sewage pump tripped, you'd have no lights in the bathroom and would have to investigate the cause(smart). Luckily, the exhaust fan was on a seperate switch and I did not turn it on. Ended up having to fish a new home run just for the sewage pump.

Always investigate the existing conditions before you plan your changes.

mike

 

[bdarnell]

Re: Bad Luck with Electrician in Central America

I had a service electrician do the same thing recently. Opened a neutral on a multiwire branch circuit. Took out 4 PC's.

 

[oliver100]

Re: Bad Luck with Electrician in Central America

I think he could have tested all circuits with an ammeter before connecting wires to avoid this problem. Unfortunately in Central America, the electricians are not licensed I believe and are not warrantied (this I know).

I think Voltmeter is more suitable to check the circuits. With Ammeter...well it would be too late.

 

[growler]

Re: Bad Luck with Electrician in Central America

Which country are you referring to. Some use 230 Volts at 50 Hertz. If the wrong fans and appliances were supplied it would be easy to make a mistake. I know of a local residential electrician that did a commercial job in a small town. He wired many of the circuits to the high leg. Did lots of damage because he had never herd of the high leg. By the way it was clearly marked. In our state you can get a limited license to work 200 Amps. and under that covers most houses and small commercial work but some of these guys are unfamiliar with three phase.

 

[eeee]

Re: Bad Luck with Electrician in Central America

When you say high leg, you must obviously be talking about the second leg of a standard single phase 240/120 volt circuit in order to make the 240volts our of the incomming 120volts phase to nuetral?

 

[haskindm]

Re: Bad Luck with Electrician in Central America

You need to find out what the supply voltage is in the country where you are living. In most of the world, other than the US, the supply voltage is 220 - 250 volt. If it is in your country, you will need transformers in order to use "American" equipment. A "High Leg" system is a three phase 240 volt system in which the center of one phase is grounded to supply 120-volts. From two of the phases to ground you would measure 120-volts, from the third phase to ground you would measure about 208-volts. I doubt that you have this system. If you have a 120/240-volt system it is fairly easy to put 240-volts on a 120-volt multi-wire circuit by having a loose or unconnected neutral wire. We need more information before helping you.

 

[growler]

Re: Bad Luck with Electrician in Central America

Sorry, I was wrong I just checked and it looks like Central America is 120/240 and the same as it is here. I know that South America has power systems similar to Europe. The others are right, open neutral on multi-wire branch circuit. Unless this house is actually a loft condo in an old commercial building.( really reaching out there )

 

[eeee]

Re: Bad Luck with Electrician in Central America

Interesting you say high leg is 3 phase type of connection where a nuetral of one phase is wired to the other phase when we a talking about a small house here. All applicances are single phase 120volt or 240 volt.

I don't think the high leg discussion therefore applies to this house.

It is interesting that the previous responder said the neutral must be left loose or disconnected. This responder must have been referencing the 3 phase high leg discussion.

It is most probable the electrician wired a 240 volt single phase circuit to a 110 volt single phase circuit using 110 volt appliances since we established Central America uses our voltages.

I believe I was told that some of their outlets are 50hz and some are 60hz in Central American houses so you have to be carefull which outlet you plug in to.

Another possibility I believe is that the electrician accidentally lost his ground when he turned on the MDP, or grounded a 220 volt circuit to a 110 volt circuit and visa versa in order to blow the new stove and the new ventillation light/fan and the small tv.

 

[mario]

Re: Bad Luck with Electrician in Central America

geez ... I have to say this ... for an EE, you sure don't know a whole lot about "Electricity" in respect to "Wireing" ... your posts are the evidence ... m

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Bad Luck with Electrician in Central America

Originally posted by mario:
geez ... I have to say this ... for an EE, you sure don't know a whole lot about "Electricity" in respect to "Wireing" ... your posts are the evidence ... m

[ January 28, 2006, 12:38 AM: Message edited by: georgestolz ]

 

[wyatt]

Re: Bad Luck with Electrician in Central America

I think that it is higher ohms, higher voltage. The neutral in effect passes through a resistor so less resistance less VD.

 

[oliver100]

Re: Bad Luck with Electrician in Central America

I believe I was told that some of their outlets are 50hz and some are 60hz in Central American houses so you have to be carefull which outlet you plug in to.

Do you say that in one Central America house there are receptacles on different frequence?

For a resistive loads (ranges, electrical DWH etc) and most of the today electronics 50/60 Hz is not a problem as long as the voltage is correct.

 

[mario]

Re: Bad Luck with Electrician in Central America

... ... yo George, I want to apologize for my last post ... I was haveing a bad day ... you're rite ... M

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Bad Luck with Electrician in Central America

Mario: No sweat, just a reminder.

 

[ccjersey]

Re: Bad Luck with Electrician in Central America

""""""I believe I was told that some of their outlets are 50hz and some are 60hz in Central American houses so you have to be carefull which outlet you plug in to."""""

I doubt this is the case within one house. There may be different voltages available and non standard receptacles making identification of the 120 and 240 circuits difficult, but unless there are two services feeding the house from two different utility generators, all of the AC power will be the same frequency in that house. There may be city to city differences in power which you may have been referring to.

I was amazed when my inlaws moved to England many years ago that when you bought a small appliance, it didn't come with a plug on it, because there were so many different receptacles in service across the country?????

 

[mario]

Re: Bad Luck with Electrician in Central America

thanks George ... now that I'm having a better day ...... being that theres been mention of an "open neutral", I want to relate this one ... I went to visit my mom last year and noticed that when some of the appliances turned on (dishwasher,microwave, washer, dryer) the lights would get brighter !! Usually in an older house, this was built in early 50's, the lights would dim (lack of circuits etc...) thinking that I was the one that upgraded the service in '81, I figured that wasn't the problem. I opened the panel and checked all connections and also checked a few upgrades to the house since I been gone; everything looked "kosher" ... I went outside to have a smoke and because it was raining I was standing under a tree with the overhead service conductors passing through the branches ... I "noticed" the bare neutral (triplex from pole) had an accumulation of bird crap under a spot the birds would hang out; the neut had corroded to the point that only a single strand was left(the stainless center). POCO came two days later, replaced drop and problem solved (I put a jumper around the spot with split bolts till they arrived) ... lucky this time ...
thanks for putting up with me ... M

 

[eee]

Re: Bad Luck with Electrician in Central America

Mario, it's cool. I got in trouble with another guy who told me he didn't know whether to scratch his watch or wind up his butt, but that he would love to be a fly on the wall when I energized a circuit I was designing. He thought it was a substation I was designing, when in reality I was just configuring a utility pole for a primary feed through.


I was trying to learn the differnce between a pin insulator and a surge/lighting arrestor. I am now well familiar with these devices and uses now thanks to this web site. I had trouble getting the info off the internet search function.

I was told that Central American houses have some outlets that are 50Hz and some that are 60hz, so you have to be carefull what outlet to plug in to. I was there for a month. Interestingly, I saw one power line comming in to my mother-in-laws house I was having an electrician modernize and install new equipment, i.e., dishwasher, dryer, new stove, new tv, etc.

If one power line comes in, how in the world are they going to produce 50hz and 60hz, unless something fancy is done with the circuit breaker panel. If some transistor radios run on 5hZ there or something, I guess it would make sense to have some outlets that are 50hz.