An electrician I worked with simply grouped the 20A, and than the 15A breakers together, and just put them in the panel, in no particular order. How much thought do you put into balancing your loads? Just putting them in, will be "balanced by random" I suppose. I did extensive searching on this forum before posting, and didn't quite find what I was looking for.
Balancing a residential panel
- Thread starter AC-DC
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- Massachusetts
Re: Balancing a residential panel
Balancing a panel has much more to do with the actual loads than the breaker sizes.
That said if you group the five 20s than five 15s they will be equally distributed between phases.
If you place them alternating you would end up with all the 15s on one phase and the 20s on the other phase.
Best bet when balancing is to do load calcs (or load readings) for each circuit and then place them accordingly.
Balancing a panel has much more to do with the actual loads than the breaker sizes.
That said if you group the five 20s than five 15s they will be equally distributed between phases.
If you place them alternating you would end up with all the 15s on one phase and the 20s on the other phase.
Best bet when balancing is to do load calcs (or load readings) for each circuit and then place them accordingly.
jwelectric
Senior Member
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- North Carolina
Re: Balancing a residential panel
Yea what Bob said
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- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
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- Service Manager
Re: Balancing a residential panel
A house's loads are so varied and unpredictable, I believe it would be a fool's errand before the folks move in and use their home.
That said, I group all my 15's on one side of the panel, and all the 20's on the other side, which balances the breaker values on the panel. Not that that really means anything.
Next to none.
A house's loads are so varied and unpredictable, I believe it would be a fool's errand before the folks move in and use their home.
That said, I group all my 15's on one side of the panel, and all the 20's on the other side, which balances the breaker values on the panel. Not that that really means anything.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
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- Boston, MA
Re: Balancing a residential panel
You got it.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
Re: Balancing a residential panel
OCD !
Oh it means something.Originally posted by georgestolz:
That said, I group all my 15's on one side of the panel, and all the 20's on the other side, which balances the breaker values on the panel. Not that that really means anything.
OCD !
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Balancing a residential panel
Originally posted by electricmanscott:
Oh it means something.Originally posted by georgestolz:
That said, I group all my 15's on one side of the panel, and all the 20's on the other side, which balances the breaker values on the panel. Not that that really means anything.
OCD !
Don't worry George there is help, you can get through this.
What Is OCD?
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Balancing a residential panel
Your chances of balancing are slim to none.Your major loads such as AC,heat,water heater,dryer,range,cooktop are all 240 volts so the remaining loads really have little impact.
Your chances of balancing are slim to none.Your major loads such as AC,heat,water heater,dryer,range,cooktop are all 240 volts so the remaining loads really have little impact.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Re: Balancing a residential panel
In a residential panel, zero. As others have said it's an improbable task. Besides it's not really an issue.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Balancing a residential panel
But it will not make any difference.
Re: Balancing a residential panel
No difference, no balance...just "aesthetics"(or maybe just my preference):
Lights are in ceilings, on tables, etc..."up"
recepts are on walls...."lower"
AC, garage, landscape lighting, etc..."bottom".
[ November 13, 2005, 09:15 PM: Message edited by: celtic ]
No difference, no balance...just "aesthetics"(or maybe just my preference):
Lights are in ceilings, on tables, etc..."up"
recepts are on walls...."lower"
AC, garage, landscape lighting, etc..."bottom".
[ November 13, 2005, 09:15 PM: Message edited by: celtic ]
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
Re: Balancing a residential panel
Originally posted by iwire:
Actually looks have less to do with it than function. By placing all the 20's in the same column, and all the 15's in the other column, labelling the panel in a tract home is a breeze. All the 20's are in a row, so checking what's what in a kitchen is a 90 second affair.Originally posted by electricmanscott:
Oh it means something.Originally posted by georgestolz:
That said, I group all my 15's on one side of the panel, and all the 20's on the other side, which balances the breaker values on the panel. Not that that really means anything.
OCD !
Don't worry George there is help, you can get through this.
You don't wind up flipping through half your 15's, or looking closely at the handles, when you're flipping through looking for the 20 amp Microwave circuit.
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: Balancing a residential panel
What I do is to create panel schedules in a spreadsheet that automatically calculates the loads. I can easily see whether there is a significant imbalance. If there is, with a few keystrokes I shift the loads from one phase to another, until it looks more reasonably balanced. Then I include the panel schedules among the project drawings. At least it looks good on paper.
What I do is to create panel schedules in a spreadsheet that automatically calculates the loads. I can easily see whether there is a significant imbalance. If there is, with a few keystrokes I shift the loads from one phase to another, until it looks more reasonably balanced. Then I include the panel schedules among the project drawings. At least it looks good on paper.
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: Balancing a residential panel
I wouldn't count on this eliminating flicker. No two items can ever "start at the same time," not really "exactly" the same time. They might get the "go" command within a few milliseconds of each other, but they will take a different amount of time to get up to full speed. That represents a significant difference in behavior, as seen by the rest of the system.
I wouldn't count on this eliminating flicker. No two items can ever "start at the same time," not really "exactly" the same time. They might get the "go" command within a few milliseconds of each other, but they will take a different amount of time to get up to full speed. That represents a significant difference in behavior, as seen by the rest of the system.
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: Balancing a residential panel
I will also say that that particular spreadsheet is by no means "user friendly." You really have to know your way around spreadsheets in order to make sure the macros are working the way you intend them to work. I have used it long enough to know what needs to be done in what cells, and what the macros will accomplish.
I am sure that there are other versions out there that are either public domain or are inexpensive to buy, and that are also easier to use.
It is a spreadsheet, but I did not make it up. It was created by an employee of a company at which I no longer work. I don't think I have the legal rights to share it.
I will also say that that particular spreadsheet is by no means "user friendly." You really have to know your way around spreadsheets in order to make sure the macros are working the way you intend them to work. I have used it long enough to know what needs to be done in what cells, and what the macros will accomplish.
I am sure that there are other versions out there that are either public domain or are inexpensive to buy, and that are also easier to use.
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