Ballpark Unit pricing for labor

[BMacky]

Hi,

I am in the early stages of quoting numbers for installation of lighting in a 10,000 sf space. About 180 2 x 4 fluorescent troffer-style fixtures, 14 2 x 2s, and various exit and emergency lighting fixtures.

Anyone have a reasonably accurate labor unit for dropping 2 x4's in, attaching pre-hung support wires, clip onto the grid, and (these will come pre-bulbed) wiring to my guess would be an MC whip, and moving on to the next one?

Does 20 minutes seem too long? These are going to be palletized, shrink wrapped so we don't have to deal with the boxing issues. The space has 10-foot ceilings so we will be moving 8 foot step ladders along, or maybe a rolling scaffolding, in several office suites.

Suggestions? Guidance? Humor? Horror stories? Will accept all input.

Thanks!

Bob

 

[kwired]

Hi,

I am in the early stages of quoting numbers for installation of lighting in a 10,000 sf space. About 180 2 x 4 fluorescent troffer-style fixtures, 14 2 x 2s, and various exit and emergency lighting fixtures.

Anyone have a reasonably accurate labor unit for dropping 2 x4's in, attaching pre-hung support wires, clip onto the grid, and (these will come pre-bulbed) wiring to my guess would be an MC whip, and moving on to the next one?

Does 20 minutes seem too long? These are going to be palletized, shrink wrapped so we don't have to deal with the boxing issues. The space has 10-foot ceilings so we will be moving 8 foot step ladders along, or maybe a rolling scaffolding, in several office suites.

Suggestions? Guidance? Humor? Horror stories? Will accept all input.

Thanks!

Bob

Are you going to throw in extra labor for preparation, clean up, or any unexpected things that come up? 20 minutes could easily be too little time if it has to include those items. How much time may be spent moving or trying to work around items in the work space? How easy is it to bring the pallets close to where the luminaires will be installed? Is this new installations or replacing existing? Is there going to be other trades on site at same time and potential conflicts with wanting to work in same spaces, or even just working around the stuff they brought in?

 

[Daja7]

Some variables to consider. open grid with no tiles in yet? j boxes for fixt feed within reach of whip? open area or partitions in the way? time alotted for going back and fix bulbs that have come loose or broken? attachment to tie wires? Exit and emegency lights, how many and how are they mounted and fed?

 

[kwired]

If you have two guys, one on say a scaffold and another on the ground for support, you have twice the man hours, but if they are productive enough they may still take less man hours than one person would. The support guy has to have things ready for the guy on the scaffold when he is ready and needs to bring in more supplies or remove debris when he is not directly needed for support. If the two are waiting for each other they are losing productivity.

 

[Rewire]

What are you including in your 20 minutes?

 

[ptonsparky]

One guy, twenty minutes each to move ladder, unbox fixture, climb ladder with fixture, scan for jbox, lay in, secure to grid & support wires, connect to jbox, strip & make up box, add cover, dispose of box, repeat. Can't you get your guy to work faster on his own? If you stand there with a whip you just doubled the man hours.

Admittedly I don't work at these hi volume jobs but 20 minute seems pretty low, as others have stated, depending on what all is included.

 

[growler]

Anyone have a reasonably accurate labor unit for dropping 2 x4's in, attaching pre-hung support wires, clip onto the grid, and (these will come pre-bulbed) wiring to my guess would be an MC whip, and moving on to the next one?

Does 20 minutes seem too long?

You say the fixtures are "pre-lamped" but are they Pre-whipped ? I assume they would be but you need to know for sure.

Even with pre-whipped fixtures there are normally a few where you have to make your own whips to reach the junction boxes.

As others have said I would want to know if any ceiling tiles are in place and would need to be removed and replaced.

Need to know if the work area is completely open.


If you have an open area where you can set up to do production type work you may get it down to 20 minutes.

I would use the whole crew to try and get all those lay-in fixtures up and clipped as fast as possible then you can use individual workers wearing tools to make up the boxes and attach the support wires.

 

[Strathead]

Hi,

I am in the early stages of quoting numbers for installation of lighting in a 10,000 sf space. About 180 2 x 4 fluorescent troffer-style fixtures, 14 2 x 2s, and various exit and emergency lighting fixtures.

Anyone have a reasonably accurate labor unit for dropping 2 x4's in, attaching pre-hung support wires, clip onto the grid, and (these will come pre-bulbed) wiring to my guess would be an MC whip, and moving on to the next one?

Does 20 minutes seem too long? These are going to be palletized, shrink wrapped so we don't have to deal with the boxing issues. The space has 10-foot ceilings so we will be moving 8 foot step ladders along, or maybe a rolling scaffolding, in several office suites.

Suggestions? Guidance? Humor? Horror stories? Will accept all input.

Thanks!

Bob

Personally, I don't even think you are close. And if you mean an MC whip from fixture to fixture in lieu of an already installed junction box with wire in it, you are even further off. With labor savings like premanufactured whips and WAGO connectors, You may be in the 30-35 minute range. Without, I would put you easily in the 40 minute range.

 

[ptonsparky]

I get myself in this predicament often enough. Labor is to low. My office help has told me to go ahead and bid projects but she will put an adder on before it leaves the door.

 

[Fulthrotl]

Hi,

I am in the early stages of quoting numbers for installation of lighting in a 10,000 sf space. About 180 2 x 4 fluorescent troffer-style fixtures, 14 2 x 2s, and various exit and emergency lighting fixtures.

Anyone have a reasonably accurate labor unit for dropping 2 x4's in, attaching pre-hung support wires, clip onto the grid, and (these will come pre-bulbed) wiring to my guess would be an MC whip, and moving on to the next one?

Does 20 minutes seem too long? These are going to be palletized, shrink wrapped so we don't have to deal with the boxing issues. The space has 10-foot ceilings so we will be moving 8 foot step ladders along, or maybe a rolling scaffolding, in several office suites.

Suggestions? Guidance? Humor? Horror stories? Will accept all input.

Thanks!

Bob

a long long time ago, i did an almost perfect match to what you are doing, except it was easier.

i was able to nipple between fixtures with 1/2" emt.
fixtures were one tile apart, so it was fixture, nipple, fixture, etc.
then wire pulled the length, and made up, etc.

and the day i dropped the fixtures was my first day with a new
employer, and i wanted to show off. i dropped 160 fixtures in about 6 hours,
in a 10' ceiling, unpacked 'em, and up in the ceiling. one every 2 1/2 minutes,
all day long. serious ass busting.

i was stupid tired when i left at the end of the day, but the shop owner was
blown away... we were so far ahead.....:angel:

at the end of the day, it ended up taking 20 minutes per fixture. :lol:
i wouldn't do it at less than 30 minutes per fixture, if i were you.

and you also are gonna have to put in your own wires for flex support...
no clipping off to the ceiling wires......

 

[GUNNING]

get a Lift

get a Lift

yeah, you are counting on dedicated workers and no set up or tear down time. There will be more then a few that wont fit the pattern. There will be set up and clean up. One man 20 min no, 3 men 20 min maybe. One striping em from the pallet and staging, one moving the ladder and debris removal switching up with hanging and makeup. You will still have that pallet of fixtures that got busted up and everyone looks at it trying to switch gears putting off production by a few hours time. Or the wago halfway down did not click and your row is out. Or Somebody forgot to put in an e ballasts or the e ballast got put in the wrong spot and has to be moved. Lens or latch not clicking or lens replacements. You might have the hang part down but not the rest of the job.
I did a store with 24 fixtures, and I thought, yea 30 minutes a piece. To my dismay, there was not a piece of floor space not covered by stored old restaurant debris and equipment. Cases of wine, stacks of bags, racks of pans, hobart mixers, coolers, wooden display racks etc. I felt like I was in a maze. Set up and tear down was not included in that 30 min and I worked it hard. A prime number of grid holes and some were not square / dimensional. Job conditions count a lot. Motivation counts, I new a mason that said if the table says 1 hour make it 3 because I only get about a third of the production out of my guys. They put up a good product. Instead of ladders what about a lift? Work a deal with the ceiling tile guy to spit the cost and work out a schedule. That helps a lot by not working your help into the ground and improves the final product. They do not go in so well when dropped/thrown from 11 feet up.
Sell it by discussing value not cost. Better product and faster install time with a lift and you might be able to eliminate one man with a platform lift.

 

[Ravenvalor]

In A perfect world bid 30 - minutes.

In A perfect world bid 30 - minutes.

If the conditions were perfect I would bid 30 - minutes per fixture. My definition of perfect is everything discussed so far on this thread but using a scaffolding instead of a lift. Sometimes you are better off with just an 8' ladder.

 

[kwired]

yeah, you are counting on dedicated workers and no set up or tear down time. There will be more then a few that wont fit the pattern. There will be set up and clean up. One man 20 min no, 3 men 20 min maybe. One striping em from the pallet and staging, one moving the ladder and debris removal switching up with hanging and makeup. You will still have that pallet of fixtures that got busted up and everyone looks at it trying to switch gears putting off production by a few hours time. Or the wago halfway down did not click and your row is out. Or Somebody forgot to put in an e ballasts or the e ballast got put in the wrong spot and has to be moved. Lens or latch not clicking or lens replacements. You might have the hang part down but not the rest of the job.
I did a store with 24 fixtures, and I thought, yea 30 minutes a piece. To my dismay, there was not a piece of floor space not covered by stored old restaurant debris and equipment. Cases of wine, stacks of bags, racks of pans, hobart mixers, coolers, wooden display racks etc. I felt like I was in a maze. Set up and tear down was not included in that 30 min and I worked it hard. A prime number of grid holes and some were not square / dimensional. Job conditions count a lot. Motivation counts, I new a mason that said if the table says 1 hour make it 3 because I only get about a third of the production out of my guys. They put up a good product. Instead of ladders what about a lift? Work a deal with the ceiling tile guy to spit the cost and work out a schedule. That helps a lot by not working your help into the ground and improves the final product. They do not go in so well when dropped/thrown from 11 feet up.
Sell it by discussing value not cost. Better product and faster install time with a lift and you might be able to eliminate one man with a platform lift.

If it takes 20 minutes per fixture with three men that is a combined 60 minutes of labor per fixture. Now three men may work well together and get the job done the most efficiently, but there becomes a point where too many men will not be all that productive per man hour.

 

[cdslotz]

.55 to .65 man/hrs per fixture

 

[btharmy]

and you also are gonna have to put in your own wires for flex support...
no clipping off to the ceiling wires......

Not if the fixture whips are 6' or less. No support required. :thumbsup:

 

[masterinbama]

.55 to .65 man/hrs per fixture

That's what my labor sheet says too.

 

[BAHTAH]

Fixture Labor Units

Fixture Labor Units

Hi,

I am in the early stages of quoting numbers for installation of lighting in a 10,000 sf space. About 180 2 x 4 fluorescent troffer-style fixtures, 14 2 x 2s, and various exit and emergency lighting fixtures.

Anyone have a reasonably accurate labor unit for dropping 2 x4's in, attaching pre-hung support wires, clip onto the grid, and (these will come pre-bulbed) wiring to my guess would be an MC whip, and moving on to the next one?

Does 20 minutes seem too long? These are going to be palletized, shrink wrapped so we don't have to deal with the boxing issues. The space has 10-foot ceilings so we will be moving 8 foot step ladders along, or maybe a rolling scaffolding, in several office suites.

Suggestions? Guidance? Humor? Horror stories? Will accept all input.

Thanks!

Bob

The labor unit accounts for unloading and placing fixtures where needed in the building (Single Story), Plan study and layout of installation with your job foreman, installation of the fixture and termination of the fixture whip and cleanup of electrical debris. I assume by your asking that you do not have track record for this size installation, so I would avoid taking the maximum deduction Labor Factor for high concentrations of the same fixture. Not included is the forklift for unloading and the pallet jack for moving the pallets of fixtures. I don't figure scaffolds for a ceiling of 10ft I think it faster to use a ladder.
2'x4' : 1.10
2'x2': 1.0
Exit (ceiling): 1.0
This is labor for the fixture installation. If your job has a Foreman overseeing other work in addition to the fixtures, the Foreman's labor is not included. If you have an experienced crew and think you can use concentration factors, you may want to included the Foreman's wages in the labor units above instead of applying any job factors. You should also take into consideration your history with the General Contractor and his crew. If the General has a good crew and you work well together, that is a plus but if not that relationship should be considered in the form of additional time being required by you to get the job done. One other issue if applicable would be the climate conditions when the work will be done, Hot, Cold, Rain, all effect productivity and site access.