BAR between kitchen and living room

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Jim W in Tampa

Jim W in Tampa

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Tampa Florida
Here is question and easy to fix if needed. I have 10 feet of bar between living room and kitchen. I have receptacles on both side to cover 12 foot rule. Question is does this bar require gfi protection ? It is clearly a sit at to eat or drink counter / bar. Just where does kitchen end and non kitchen begin ? Yes could easily put gfi receptacle in but is it required ? I have 20 feet of kitchen counter space between the island and sink area. Is this bar part of kitchen counter or not and if so what happens to the 4 foot rule ?
 
Ok, time for a more serious answer, sortof.

Depends on which code year you're subject to. If its' 2008 I'd argue that it's part of the kitchen, because if it's not you'd have to have the receptacles on an AFCI and that would be more expensive than a GFCI for those receptacles, if you're under 2005 I'd argue that its not in the kitchen, because not having a GFCI is even cheaper.:)

If it were my house it would be TR GFCI's all the way.

Ok, I'm headed out to the truck to get my code book:mad:
 
If there is more then a 6" over hang, or the receptacles are lower then 12" below the counter top then they don't serve the counter top, so no mater where you say the receptacles are they don't require the 4' rule or the GFCI rule, code only requires one receptacle to serve a peninsula, and this can be located at the far end where there is no over hang and within 12" of the counter top so you have satisfied the NEC.
 
M_J_C said:
Ok, time for a more serious answer, sortof.

Depends on which code year you're subject to. If its' 2008 I'd argue that it's part of the kitchen, because if it's not you'd have to have the receptacles on an AFCI and that would be more expensive than a GFCI for those receptacles, if you're under 2005 I'd argue that its not in the kitchen, because not having a GFCI is even cheaper.:)

If it were my house it would be TR GFCI's all the way.

Ok, I'm headed out to the truck to get my code book:mad:
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Well it was built in 73. I am remodeling the kitchen. I have not added them. Simply trying to make code compliant within reason. Has over 2 feet of wall on both ends. If its counter space i would need receptacles every 4 feet (not happening). It is not an island or connected to any other counter tops. I have put in many missing gfi's and can easily do it here but puzzled as to just what is required. We never ever plug anything into it other than vacume or lap top but not sure how it should be. I never ask the easy questions just the ones in gray print. It clearly is 1/2 in the kitchen but not what i call counter top. More like an extra long desk.
 
hurk27 said:
If there is more then a 6" over hang, or the receptacles are lower then 12" below the counter top then they don't serve the counter top, so no mater where you say the receptacles are they don't require the 4' rule or the GFCI rule, code only requires one receptacle to serve a peninsula, and this can be located at the far end where there is no over hang and within 12" of the counter top so you have satisfied the NEC.
Click to expand...
To be a peninsula do they not need touch the kitchen counter top ? They don't. This will not be inspected but mostly curious how one would do it if it was new.
 
Now I'm confused, it is not an island? And it's not attached to the kitchen cabinets? It is a sit down (bar stool?) bar, and the side opposite where you sit is in the kitchen? The side you sit at has an overhang greater than 6" and the over hang on the opposite is how far?

Sorry for all the questions, just trying to get a good mental picture of it.
 
M_J_C said:
Now I'm confused, it is not an island? And it's not attached to the kitchen cabinets? It is a sit down (bar stool?) bar, and the side opposite where you sit is in the kitchen? The side you sit at has an overhang greater than 6" and the over hang on the opposite is how far?

Sorry for all the questions, just trying to get a good mental picture of it.
Click to expand...
Bar is about 10' 8 inches long. Wall at both ends. Simply an opening between living room and kitchen and has bar stools. One side is in living room other kitchen. Overhang is about 10 inches both sides. To the left and right ends i do have receptacles at about 48 inches high on kitchen side and normal 16 inch high on living room side. All 4 are almost never used for anything sept vacume. In my 28 years i have never seen same layout.
 
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