Bare Service ground conductor

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alive wire

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I could swear that I remember Mike Holt saying that you could not run a bare service ground conductor in metal conduit due to lightning strikes, but I can't find it in the nec

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Never heard of that, but the metal conduit containing the GEC must be bonded at both ends.

250.64(E) Raceways and Enclosures for Grounding Electrode
Conductors.
(1) General. Ferrous metal raceways and enclosures for
grounding electrode conductors shall be electrically continuous
from the point of attachment to cabinets or equipment
to the grounding electrode and shall be securely fastened
to the ground clamp or fitting. Ferrous metal
raceways and enclosures shall be bonded at each end of the
raceway or enclosure to the grounding electrode or grounding
electrode conductor. Nonferrous metal raceways and enclosures
shall not be required to be electrically continuous.
 
alive wire said:
I could swear that I remember Mike Holt saying that you could not run a bare service ground conductor in metal conduit due to lightning strikes, but I can't find it in the nec

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I am not sure what a "service ground conductor" would be other than a GEC. Maybe a bonding jumper. As jumper said, the former must be bonded to a metal raceway at both ends, but the latter does not.
 
Ok, that's the little bare wire that we put on 200 amp residential services they go to those rods in the earth that are supposed to be less then 25 ohms in resistance it can be a 6 AWG however I have yet to find a power company oh sorry poco that will accept 6 so what you its usually 4awg , its supposed to help with induced voltage as in from a lightning strike and don't blame me Mike said but who's he

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tom baker said:
The GEC is under the scope of the NEC not the POCO. Its on the customer side of the service point.
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How true, and then the poco says NO we're not energizing your service and you sit there looking like a goober in front of your customer with your green tag opining on how you are the smartest electrician in the world and how it's totally NEC compliant, then you realize its like Burger King and they will have it their way or you and your customer can sit without power..... but I digress my question was about running your grounding Electrical conductor in metal conduit, and this was not a problem that I encountered simply a curiosity

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But thank you very much Tom sincerely for your help I am in Arizona and it's a little backwards here I'm a little on edge after electro felon and 2tonsparky, Arizona's as a state is not even under this NEC

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It's called a grounding electrode conductor (GEC), and there's no reason it can't be run bare in metal conduit. However it must be bonded at both ends of any sections of metal it runs through, which in turn must be bonded to each other. Also the NEC prohibits pulling solid conductors larger than #10 in a conduit, so if you're pulling it in conduit it has to be stranded.

As far as lightning that is mostly outside the scope of the NEC. Mike Holt might have discouraged putting GECs in conduit at some point for some reason but it is not against code. A GEC is supposed to keep surges from lightning and other sources from causing damage to wiring inside houses, but it can't do much if the lightning strike is close by and the NEC isn't trying to protect against close-by lightning strikes. There's another code for real lightning protection.

If a GEC is going only to a rod then it doesn't have to be larger than #6, but if it serves to connect more than one electrode (e.g. water pipe also) to the service then it has to be sized to 250.66. Around here the POCO won't reconnect your power without a green tag from the AHJ, which just means that the AHJ is the guy who argues about wire size and makes you look like an idiot in front of your customer.
 
jaggedben said:
It's called a grounding electrode conductor (GEC), and there's no reason it can't be run bare in metal conduit. However it must be bonded at both ends of any sections of metal it runs through, which in turn must be bonded to each other. Also the NEC prohibits pulling solid conductors larger than #10 in a conduit, so if you're pulling it in conduit it has to be stranded.

As far as lightning that is mostly outside the scope of the NEC. Mike Holt might have discouraged putting GECs in conduit at some point for some reason but it is not against code. A GEC is supposed to keep surges from lightning and other sources from causing damage to wiring inside houses, but it can't do much if the lightning strike is close by and the NEC isn't trying to protect against close-by lightning strikes. There's another code for real lightning protection.

If a GEC is going only to a rod then it doesn't have to be larger than #6, but if it serves to connect more than one electrode (e.g. water pipe also) to the service then it has to be sized to 250.66. Around here the POCO won't reconnect your power without a green tag from the AHJ, which just means that the AHJ is the guy who argues about wire size and makes you look like an idiot in front of your customer.
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Thank you, lots of meat and salty just the way I like it, this forum keeps me in my code book and I believe iron sharpens iron, you weren't condescending but concise and straight to the point and yes you're right it's a grounding electrode conductor but I don't speak to electrician, or electrical engineers, I speak to homeowners but sincerely thank you, here in Arizona the power company tells the inspector how they want it and then he tells you how they want it, code says a lateral service should be 2 foot deep poco says they want it 3 foot deep you had better keep digging. Now where do I go for the lightning bs? once again thank you

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electrofelon said:
I am not sure what a "service ground conductor" would be other than a GEC. Maybe a bonding jumper. As jumper said, the former must be bonded to a metal raceway at both ends, but the latter does not.
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I thought the OP meant the Grounded Conductor or Neutral, not the GEC. Our SED was brand new and the NEC had just been adopted as State law.

It was common enough to see a 6 bare copper used as a neutral to the split buss panel. NE history lesson for the day.
 
ptonsparky said:
I thought the OP meant the Grounded Conductor or Neutral, not the GEC. Our SED was brand new and the NEC had just been adopted as State law.

It was common enough to see a 6 bare copper used as a neutral to the split buss panel. NE history lesson for the day.
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A number 6 would be compliant for 150 amp service if the neutral calculated load was 65 amps or less. A number 4 neutral would be compliant for 200 amp if the neutral calculated load was 85 amps or less.
 
alive wire said:
Ok, that's the little bare wire that we put on 200 amp residential services they go to those rods in the earth that are supposed to be less then 25 ohms in resistance it can be a 6 AWG however I have yet to find a power company oh sorry poco that will accept 6 so what you its usually 4awg , its supposed to help with induced voltage as in from a lightning strike and don't blame me Mike said but who's he
Click to expand...
Your power company should have a book of rules that you can get (most do in hard copy and electronically) that would help as far as them requiring something other than the NEC rules. With that said, read 250.4(A)(1), the exception to 250.53(A)(2), 250.66(A), and as posted earlier, 250.64(E).

Now, nobody in this thread has tried to give you a hard time, your question was not very clear and could have very well been talking about the Neutral conductor.

Roger
 
roger said:
Your power company should have a book of rules that you can get (most do in hard copy and electronically) that would help as far as them requiring something other than the NEC rules. With that said, read 250.4(A)(1), the exception to 250.53(A)(2), 250.66(A), and as posted earlier, 250.64(E).

Now, nobody in this thread has tried to give you a hard time, your question was not very clear and could have very well been talking about the Neutral conductor.

Roger
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I have the power companies book of rules, as far as my original post you're right it could have been more clear I post from a phone may not be the best tool for the job. All industry people do is give each other a hard time but in the future I will try to be more clear

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alive wire said:
How true, and then the poco says NO we're not energizing your service and you sit there looking like a goober in front of your customer with your green tag opining on how you are the smartest electrician in the world and how it's totally NEC compliant, then you realize its like Burger King and they will have it their way or you and your customer can sit without power..... but I digress my question was about running your grounding Electrical conductor in metal conduit, and this was not a problem that I encountered simply a curiosity

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I feel like if the inspector signs off on the service, he calls the POCO and tells them it's compliant. End of story. Now if they have special rules, the inspector should know those rules, and maybe they should be posted at the office when you go to pull the permit.

For instance in a beach town around here copper conductors are required at the service drop. Initially I thought this meant the entire service, but reading the rules I can come down the riser from the weatherhead to the meter with copper, then switch to aluminum to feed the panel.
 
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