ModbusMan
Member
- Location
- Cleveland, OH
- Occupation
- Building Automation Engineer
Surprised after scrolling all the way back that I didn't see any discussion about the various BAS/BMS systems out there, so thought I'd get other's experiences and observations about them. My personal thoughts having experienced them through the lens of data center operations:
Niagara: Easily what I have the most experience with (13 years and counting). It'll basically talk to anything, but licensing can sometimes be a pain (AX JACEs would license individual protocols, while N4 uses a devices+points mechanism), and I haven't really settled on which version I like better. AX was nice in that you only bought what was necessary, but being able to just grab something off the shelf and not worry about "Do I have BACnet/MSTP on this thing?" is also a strong point. The integrated admin/programming tool makes changing things on the fly, figuring out what's broken, or overriding points in an emergency, rather easy.
Automated Logic: Number two on my experience list (~6 years). Also very powerful, but to my experience limited by the fact that it forces everything through a BACnet funnel, and while the hardware can speak Modbus directly (mitigating the need for protocol gateways/converters in most cases), you're limited by what the programs convert into equivalent BACnet points. Logic investigation and overrides can happen through the web interface that (for me, at least) is easier to work with than Niagara, but changing said logic requires switching to a separate tool, rewriting it there, then saving and downloading the new program(s). Additionally, if you lose the WebCTRL station, there's no way to pull currently running programs back out of the boards to recover what you originally sent, so make sure your backup routine is solid. Win some, lose some, I guess.
Alerton: I inherited one of these about two years ago, and frankly I'm not impressed. Turns out it's actually running Niagara in the background, but you can't actually access the station. Like ALC, it funnels everything through BACnet, but unlike ALC, programming is handled through a mountain of CSV files and Visio slides, so unless we've missed it, there is no way to view the currently running logic or manipulate points in an emergency, outside having previously created web graphics of the logic flows, and programmed individual overrides at what you think are key locations. The best summary I can come up with for it is, "Great for day to day operators, but awful for technical operators in an emergency."
Delta Controls: Another inheritance from a couple years back, and yet another BACnet funnel, but unlike Alerton, I haven't had to deal with any headaches. The old ORCAweb software is visually similar to ALC WebCTRL, but that's really about as far as I've gotten with it (mostly because of all the Alerton headaches I've been dealing with). 2024 will likely be the year I really start digging into this and checking out what's happening under the hood.
Niagara: Easily what I have the most experience with (13 years and counting). It'll basically talk to anything, but licensing can sometimes be a pain (AX JACEs would license individual protocols, while N4 uses a devices+points mechanism), and I haven't really settled on which version I like better. AX was nice in that you only bought what was necessary, but being able to just grab something off the shelf and not worry about "Do I have BACnet/MSTP on this thing?" is also a strong point. The integrated admin/programming tool makes changing things on the fly, figuring out what's broken, or overriding points in an emergency, rather easy.
Automated Logic: Number two on my experience list (~6 years). Also very powerful, but to my experience limited by the fact that it forces everything through a BACnet funnel, and while the hardware can speak Modbus directly (mitigating the need for protocol gateways/converters in most cases), you're limited by what the programs convert into equivalent BACnet points. Logic investigation and overrides can happen through the web interface that (for me, at least) is easier to work with than Niagara, but changing said logic requires switching to a separate tool, rewriting it there, then saving and downloading the new program(s). Additionally, if you lose the WebCTRL station, there's no way to pull currently running programs back out of the boards to recover what you originally sent, so make sure your backup routine is solid. Win some, lose some, I guess.
Alerton: I inherited one of these about two years ago, and frankly I'm not impressed. Turns out it's actually running Niagara in the background, but you can't actually access the station. Like ALC, it funnels everything through BACnet, but unlike ALC, programming is handled through a mountain of CSV files and Visio slides, so unless we've missed it, there is no way to view the currently running logic or manipulate points in an emergency, outside having previously created web graphics of the logic flows, and programmed individual overrides at what you think are key locations. The best summary I can come up with for it is, "Great for day to day operators, but awful for technical operators in an emergency."
Delta Controls: Another inheritance from a couple years back, and yet another BACnet funnel, but unlike Alerton, I haven't had to deal with any headaches. The old ORCAweb software is visually similar to ALC WebCTRL, but that's really about as far as I've gotten with it (mostly because of all the Alerton headaches I've been dealing with). 2024 will likely be the year I really start digging into this and checking out what's happening under the hood.
