baseboard heater receptacle location

[stew]

i was always under the impression that recptacles could not be located above baseboard heaters. the code does not expressly say that they are not permitted there according to my inspector. We just did a job for a contractor where several aircon units the plug in type were installed thru the outer wall and were located above the heaters. we put dedicated circuits in for these and with the 4 units that were located in this manner we put the receptacle 1 or 2 inches outboard of the heater. he cites 110.3a1and says"the cords cannot be run parralel with the heater below. Relocate the outlets right next to the units and tie the cord so it doesnt hang down on the heater". So any wise comments on this???????

 

[infinity]

These are electric heaters? What does the heater manufacturer's instructions say?

 

[mdshunk]

Just so I'm clear on what's being asked, you're dealing with two seperate pieces of equipment? The AirCon PTAC through-wall air conditioner, the receptacle for which is located above an electric baseboard heater?

If I understand that correctly, the answer would depend wholly on the instructions that come with the electric baseboard heater. I spent some time a couple of years ago collecting white papers on every baseboard heater I could find out about. I wasn't able to find a single one that didn't have a prohibition against receptacles over the heating section of the baseboard heater.

Here's a very typical baseboard heater instruction booklet. Note that the receptacle prohibition is right on the front cover, in the "Warnings" block:
http://www.marleymeh.com/Develop/prod_pdf/instructs/5200-2194-007.pdf

 

[iwire]

From Marc's link

2. Do not install baseboard heater below electrical convenience
receptacles (outlets).

I would say the dedicated outlet for an AC is not a 'convenience
receptacle (outlet).

 

[mdshunk]

From Marc's link



I would say the dedicated outlet for an AC is not a 'convenience
receptacle (outlet).

Does the term 'convenience receptacle' have a printed definition anyplace? Sure, I know the meaning to all of us.... a duplex with no special purpose other than to be convenient. I offer you this; a receptacle next to a PTAC sure does make a convenient place to plug it into.

I do see your point, however. A cord for a dedicated circuit could be easily fastened up out of the way, because it will be a pretty permanent installation. Cords that are typically plugged into 'convenience receptacles' generally would not have the extra effort of fastening the cord up out of the way of the heat.

Interesting.

 

[iwire]

Does the term 'convenience receptacle' have a printed definition anyplace?

Not that I am aware of. :grin:

I offer you this; a receptacle next to a PTAC sure does make a convenient place to plug it into.

I will make it a single and label it Air Conditioner. :wink:

Now would the inspector buy it?

I don't know.....but I would try it.

[/QUOTE]

 

[mdshunk]

Now would the inspector buy it?

That's the million-dollar question. I think many of them are conditioned such that "no recs over electric baseboard heat" is the rule. I certainly think (thought) that until you just pointed out the "convenience receptacle" phrase. You'd have to rehearse your "script" to explain your case clearly and concisely to them, in any event, I would think.

 

[dlhoule]

That's the million-dollar question. I think many of them are conditioned such that "no recs over electric baseboard heat" is the rule. I certainly think (thought) that until you just pointed out the "convenience receptacle" phrase. You'd have to rehearse your "script" to explain your case clearly and concisely to them, in any event, I would think.

Do the inspectors in your area understand anything that is clear and concise?

 

[mdshunk]

Do the inspectors in your area understand anything that is clear and concise?

You've met them before... "Don't bother me with the facts. I've got my mind made up".

In the case of the PDF I linked to, the definition of "convenience receptacle" would be the point of contest.

 

[mdshunk]

About the closest thing I can find so far related to a definition of a convenience receptacle would be this panel statement, from the May 2001 ROP:

(Log #3683)
2- 150 - (210-26 (New) ): Reject
SUBMITTER: Leonard F. Devine, Jr., W. Palm Beach County
Bldg & Zoning, FL
RECOMMENDATION: Add new text to read as follows:
2 1 0.26 The maximum number of 120 volt outlets permitted per
circuit in residential occupancies shall not exceed the provisions of
Table 210.26.
T a ble 210.26 Maximum Number of Outlets
Per Circuit for Residential Occupancies
Lighting outlets 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0
Duplex receptacle 0 0 1 1 2 2 3 3 4 4 5 5 6
SUBSTANTIATION: This new section and table would provide a
greater degree of safety for residential occupancies. The
homeowner would have a greater degree of flexibility using today's
many appliances, computers, televisions, etc.
PANEL ACTION: Reject.
PANEL STATEMENT: The outlets provided for dwelling units by
the requirements in Section 210-52 are intended to be
convenience outlets and adding outlets does not necessarily add
load. There is no intent to limit the number of convenience
outlets on a general branch circuit in a dwelling unit.
NUMBER OF PANEL MEMBERS ELIGIBLE TO VOTE: 12
VOTE ON PANEL ACTION:
AFFIRMATIVE: 12​

From that, we could conclude that any receptacle that is installed that is not required by 210-52 is not a convenience receptacle. ​

 

[electricmanscott]

The way I read the original question the receptacles are notabove the baseboard. It is the cord that is above the heater. In my opinion the inspector has no basis for what he is asking.

 

[stew]

The baseboards were existing. the new ac units were then installed thru the wall above them. I installed the putlets OUTBOARD and not above the baseboards. He rejected and insists I relocate the outlets adjacent to the ac units which then puts them above the basenoard heaters. IMHO the code requires that I do not put them there due to the manufacturers restriction in the baseboard heater installation instructions. If I do what he is asking I violate the section of coade that REQUIRES me to instal per listing and labeling instructions. He does not appear to want to move on this so tomorrow iI move them per his written directive.

 

[mdshunk]

He does not appear to want to move on this so tomorrow iI move them per his written directive.

You're more generous than I am. I'd at least have asked for a code citation by now.

 

[Greg1707]

common practice

common practice

I do a lot of work in a condo community with nearly 2,000 units. The buildings were converted to condos in the 70's. I estimate there are 7 to 8,000 air conditioners and baseboard heaters in these buildings. In each room the baseboard heater was installed below the thru the wall plug in A/C. The A/C and baseboards share the same circuit. In most cases the receptical for the A/C is installed about 12" above the baseboard heater. I have replace dozens of these baseboard heaters and no inspector has ever raised an issue with the location of the receptical.

 

[donselectric]

so its ok to melt the cord on th ac because its not a conveniance outlet??

 

[mdshunk]

so its ok to melt the cord on th ac because its not a conveniance outlet??

No, it's not okay, but it just might be a legal install.

I think we all have personal standards of things that are legal, but we don't or won't do, generally.

 

[jaylectricity]

For what it is worth:

I have the same installation in my apartment. My living room has two windows (corner apartment...sweet!) and underneath each is a baseboard heater. Above one of the heaters is a receptacle to satisfy 210.52(A)(1).

Above the other heater is an A/C unit located about 10 inches above the top of the heater. There is 2" molding around the opening cut for the A/C. The dedicated receptacle is right next to the air conditioner on the left side. The right side of its plate runs within a 1/4" of the aforementioned molding. Most of the cord tucks into the shell cover of the A/C unit with about 5 inches sticking out to plug in.

This is a 3 story, 34 unit building that was most certainly inspected. I figured I'd give you another scenario where things were done the way the inspector suggested.

 

[goldstar]

Aside from the code section, I'm just curious to know what the underlying issue is with the restriction of receptacles over electric baseboard heaters. Would it make a difference if the units were not only electric but hydronic (liquid filled) ? That essentially makes them hot water-baseboard heaters. There's no restriction on installing receptacles over hot water-baseboard heaters. Do electric heaters get hotter than HW-BB heaters or is the issue with them being all electric and the possibility of glowing elements or arcing ?

 

[paul]

Put one of these around the cord to protect it.

 

[bcorbin]

Put one of these around the cord to protect it.

Hey! At least the cat won't get electrocuted while he catches his fur on fire.