baseboard heater

[raider1]

I had someone ask if a baseboard heater could be installed within one foot of the edge of a bathtub.

I was just wondering what the opinions of this forum were as to whether this was a damp or dry location.

Thanks,
Chris.

 

[al hildenbrand]

Re: baseboard heater

This is just my opinion, but, in looking at Locations, Damp in Article 100, and inferring from 410.4(D), I would say that the area outside of the bathtub or shower zone is not "damp".

The Handbook includes Exhibit 410.1 which shows the zone going no lower than the top of the tub.

Presumably the baseboard heater would be mounted below the top of the tub.

 

[kevinware]

Re: baseboard heater

IMO (and it is a very small opinion acknowledging the experience on this form) even if the area one foot from the tub isn't defined as a damp location, looking at 424.12(B) I keep thinking if in doubt buy a unit listed for a damp or wet location.

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: baseboard heater

Under normal circumstances this should not be either wet or damp.

 

[charlie b]

Re: baseboard heater

Then again, if you have young kids who like to play in the tub, the entire floor and even out to the other side of the bathroom door is a potentially wet location.

 

[raider1]

Re: baseboard heater

Thanks for all the insight.

My feelings were that this was a dry location but could maybe see an argument for it being a damp location.

Charlie you said it all.

Thanks,

Chris

 

[George Stolz]

Re: baseboard heater

Originally posted by charlie b:
Then again, if you have young kids who like to play in the tub, the entire floor and even out to the other side of the bathroom door is a potentially wet location.

 

[charlie b]

Re: baseboard heater

Actually, I wasn't kidding. I can't imagine not treating it as a wet area. But I don't do the installations, so I am not sure what would have to be done differently, and how much extra cost would be involved.

 

[charlie b]

Re: baseboard heater

I've deleted a few posts that had started taking this thread down the path of tasteless "bathroom humor." Let's stay technical, please. A joke told in the bathroom is on the border of tasteless. A joke told about a bathroom crosses that border.

 

[LarryFine]

Re: baseboard heater

Originally posted by charlie b:
A joke told in the bathroom is on the border of tasteless. A joke told about a bathroom crosses that border.

Then I take it that a joke about a bathroom told in one is out of the question.

 

[al hildenbrand]

Re: baseboard heater

OK, Charlie,

2005 NEC 410.4 Luminaires (Fixtures) in Specific Locations
(D) Bathtub and Shower Areas

No parts of cord-connected luminaires (fixtures), chain-, cable-, or cord-suspended-luminaires (fixtures), lighting track, pendants, or ceiling-suspended (paddle) fans shall be located within a zone measured 900 mm (3 ft) horizontally and 2.5 m (8 ft) vertically from the top of the bathtub rim or shower stall threshold. This zone is all encompassing and includes the zone directly over the tub or shower stall. Luminaires (lighting fixtures) located in this zone shall be listed for damp locations, or listed for wet locations where subject to shower spray.

By the above, I can clearly install a regular luminaire in the "dry" location beside the tub, below the rim of the tub.

How do we test for future presence of splashing kids, that splash enough to saturate the area outside the "zone"?

[ September 01, 2005, 01:30 PM: Message edited by: al hildenbrand ]

 

[charlie b]

Re: baseboard heater

Hire the company that makes the "Arc Fault Warning" signs to make one that says, "No kids allowed in this tub." The kids would go for it.

 

[al hildenbrand]

Re: baseboard heater

Now who's making jokes!

 

[charlie b]

Re: baseboard heater

Yea. But mine was about the kids, not about the bathroom.

 

[LarryFine]

Re: baseboard heater

Maybe so, but it was about kids IN bathrooms!

 

[JohnE]

Re: baseboard heater

If the entire bathroom floor area would be a wet location, the how about countertops - kitchen or bathroom? On the rare occasion that I do the dishes, you could make an argument that countertop receptacles are in a wet location. I've seen many parents bathing infants in the sinks. I do not consider that this area or the entire bathroom floor to be a wet location. But, in ourstate, the AHJ is making that determination.

John

 

[charlie b]

Re: baseboard heater

Originally posted by j_erickson:. . . you could make an argument that countertop receptacles are in a wet location. I've seen many parents bathing infants in the sinks.

You could also note that those receptacles are GFCI-protected.

But this brings me to an area that I do not know well. Suppose, just suppose, that some AHJ declares the countertop receptacles to be in a wet location. What do you do differently? Is there a different model of receptacle needed here? Does it require a cover? Are the wiring methods any different?

 

[raider1]

Re: baseboard heater

If a AHJ did classify a kitchen counter top a wet location wouldn't the outlets need bubble covers on them? :roll: :roll:

Chris.

 

[JohnE]

Re: baseboard heater

Originally posted by charlie b:

Originally posted by j_erickson:. . . you could make an argument that countertop receptacles are in a wet location. I've seen many parents bathing infants in the sinks.

You could also note that those receptacles are GFCI-protected.

But this brings me to an area that I do not know well. Suppose, just suppose, that some AHJ declares the countertop receptacles to be in a wet location. What do you do differently? Is there a different model of receptacle needed here? Does it require a cover? Are the wiring methods any different?

True, receptacles are GFI protected. Switches for disposal or dishwasher or lighting are not.
So, supposing ahj deems it wet location, then would need covers rated for wet location.
Again, I wouldn't call this or entire bath floor a wet location, because we could what-if forever.
If ahj deems it wet location, I appeal to state board.
John

 

[al hildenbrand]

Re: baseboard heater

I have to go back to the 410.4(D) reference again.

If one part of the Code considers the bath wall by and below the top of the tub to be DRY for lighting, then, why is there a question about the heater wet/damp/dry rating when the Code is mum about the heater?

406.8 and 406.8(C) seems to take say that the receptacle that is inside the bathtub zone but outside of the bathtub space should have a weatherproof cover. . .but really, how many of y'all put weatherproof covers on the lavatory receptacle that is within 3' of the tub?