baseboard heaters

[electric291]

is it still in the nec that you can't install a receptacle above a baseboard heater? is it ok if the heater is hydronic?

 

[480sparky]

is it still in the nec that you can't install a receptacle above a baseboard heater? is it ok if the heater is hydronic?

No NEC issues other than if the instructions state you can't, it would be 110.3(B)

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Just to add to Ken's post-- I am not sure it was ever in the NEC-- Here is an excerpt from the 2008 NEC. Check the footnote at the end and remember this is about electric baseboard. I am not sure I have every seen the instructions for a hydronic heater.

210.52 Dwelling Unit Receptacle Outlets.
This section provides requirements for 125-volt, 15- and 20-ampere receptacle outlets. The receptacles required by this section shall be in addition to any receptacle that is:
(1) Part of a luminaire or appliance, or
(2) Controlled by a wall switch in accordance with 210.70(A)(1), Exception No. 1, or
(3) Located within cabinets or cupboards, or
(4) Located more than 1.7 m (5? ft) above the floor
Permanently installed electric baseboard heaters equipped with factory-installed receptacle outlets or outlets provided as a separate assembly by the manufacturer shall be permitted as the required outlet or outlets for the wall space utilized by such permanently installed heaters. Such receptacle outlets shall not be connected to the heater circuits.
FPN: Listed baseboard heaters include instructions that may not permit their installation below receptacle outlets.

 

[infinity]

Hydronic heat has no such restrictions.

 

[raider1]

Just to add to Ken's post-- I am not sure it was ever in the NEC-- Here is an excerpt from the 2008 NEC. Check the footnote at the end and remember this is about electric baseboard. I am not sure I have every seen the instructions for a hydronic heater.

The same requirement is mirrored in Article 424.

424.9 General.
All fixed electric space-heating equipment shall be installed in an approved manner.
Permanently installed electric baseboard heaters equipped with factory-installed receptacle outlets, or outlets provided as a separate listed assembly, shall be permitted in lieu of a receptacle outlet(s) that is required by 210.50(B). Such receptacle outlets shall not be connected to the heater circuits.
FPN: Listed baseboard heaters include instructions that may not permit their installation below receptacle outlets.

Chris

 

[C3PO]

Hydronic heat has no such restrictions.

I agree, I haven't seen any Hydronic heat that had those restrictions.

 

[wbalsam1]

I, too, have never seen a restriction in the instructions that come with hydronic baseboard electric heating units that would prohibit their installation under receptacles.

 

[JohnJ0906]

Hydronic heat has no such restrictions.

I agree, I haven't seen any Hydronic heat that had those restrictions.

I, too, have never seen a restriction in the instructions that come with hydronic baseboard electric heating units that would prohibit their installation under receptacles.

Thank you all - I was unaware of this.

Learn something new every day here. :grin:

 

[MF Dagger]

If it was prohibited per instructions above hydronic heat two walls of most bedrooms would be either bare or have floor outlets. Due to the way hydronic systems are usually installed it is just not reasonable to disallow receptacles above them.

 

[JohnJ0906]

If it was prohibited per instructions above hydronic heat two walls of most bedrooms would be either bare or have floor outlets. Due to the way hydronic systems are usually installed it is just not reasonable to disallow receptacles above them.

I was thinking more along the lines of something like this - http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=225987-49285-PLF2004&lpage=none

 

[480sparky]

If it was prohibited per instructions above hydronic heat two walls of most bedrooms would be either bare or have floor outlets. ....

I don't think I've ever seen a bb heater longer than 8'. You only need a recep every 12. Just leave a foot or so between two of them, and you' re golden!

 

[wbalsam1]

I don't think I've ever seen a bb heater longer than 8'. You only need a recep every 12. Just leave a foot or so between two of them, and you' re golden!

Years ago I used to install 10 ft heaters made by Berko and Markel but I don't think 10 ft BB's are made anymore. Don't really know, though.

 

[Greg1707]

Hydronic

Hydronic

Why would there be a difference between conventional BB heaters and hydronic regarding installing receptacles above the units? Per watt they all produce the same btu's. A 4' hydronic heater produces the same amount of heat as the other, it just takes longer to heat up and longer to cool down.

 

[brother]

Mike holt Books

Mike holt Books

Ive just checked out the Nec Preparation book from mike holt, it appears to be ok. does anyone know of any other good books to help elaborate on calculations and controls, and PLC's??

 

[MF Dagger]

I guess when I saw hydronic I thought he was talking about the hot water heaters you see fed off of boilers. The ones that go all the way around the room

 

[infinity]

I guess when I saw hydronic I thought he was talking about the hot water heaters you see fed off of boilers. The ones that go all the way around the room

That would be the definition of hydronic heat. An electric hydronic baseboard heater would be a completely different animal.

 

[wbalsam1]

That would be the definition of hydronic heat. An electric hydronic baseboard heater would be a completely different animal.

I used to install a brand called "Intratherm" or "Intertherm" and they were electric-hydronic (oil-filled) and receptacles could be placed above/the heaters could be placed below receptacles. These units were popular years ago, but they were quite a bit more expensive than standard electric element baseboard heaters.