Basement 3-way

[GerryB]

I took over a job that was started last year under the 08 code. There is a switch at the top of the stairs for the lights but no 3-way in the unfinished basement. There is a hatchway at the other end of the basement. He also put only the bedroom outlets on the arc fault breakers, not the lights. I think these are both violations?

 

[jaylectricity]

3-ways are not mandated by the code.

The lights in the bedroom, however, should be on an arc-fault breaker.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

If there is a switch in the basement that controls a light then you are probably compliant however maybe a bad design. Art. 210.20(A)(2) does not req. a 3 way switch

 

[arcsnsparks98]

Three way switches at each end of a set of stairs with six or more steps is a code requirement.

 

[GoldDigger]

Three way switches at each end of a set of stairs with six or more steps is a code requirement.

And if the lights for the stairway area happen to be the basement ceiling lights, you think that requirement applies, right?

 

[arcsnsparks98]

Absolutely.

 

[infinity]

Three way switches at each end of a set of stairs with six or more steps is a code requirement.

Code article?

 

[arcsnsparks98]

210.70(A)(2)(c)

 

[infinity]

210.70(A)(2)(c)

Where is the requirement for 3-ways in that section?

210.70(A)(2)(c) Where one or more lighting outlet(s) are installed
for interior stairways, there shall be a wall switch at each
floor level, and landing level that includes an entryway, to
control the lighting outlet(s) where the stairway between
floor levels has six risers or more.
Exception to (A)(2)(a), (A)(2)(b), and (A)(2)(c): In hall-
ways, in stairways, and at outdoor entrances, remote, cen-
tral, or automatic control of lighting shall be permitted.

 

[cowboyjwc]

You are correct, you do not need a three way switch, you simply need a switch at the top and the bottom of the stairs that controls the lighting outlet.

 

[GerryB]

210.70(A)(2)(c)

This is why I asked. It is actually the 05 code we were on, I am reading an exception that says "hallways,stairways, outdoor entrances, remote, central or automatic controls shall be permitted." What he has is a switch at the top of the stairs for two stairwell lights, then at the bottom of the stairs 3 switches for 3 sets of two lights each, so he has plenty of lights and switches, just no 3-way.

 

[arcsnsparks98]

Sorry, I dont know how to quote previous posts but to say you dont need a 3 way, just two switches controlling one lighting outlet is like saying I dont need a rectangle, just a square with two sides longer than the other.

 

[infinity]

This is why I asked. It is actually the 05 code we were on, I am reading an exception that says "hallways,stairways, outdoor entrances, remote, central or automatic controls shall be permitted." What he has is a switch at the top of the stairs for two stairwell lights, then at the bottom of the stairs 3 switches for 3 sets of two lights each, so he has plenty of lights and switches, just no 3-way.

The use of 3-ways would be a design issue not a code requirement as long as you have a switch on each level with 6 or more stair risers in between.

 

[infinity]

Sorry, I dont know how to quote previous posts but to say you dont need a 3 way, just two switches controlling one lighting outlet is like saying I dont need a rectangle, just a square with two sides longer than the other.

Use the "Reply with Quote" tab on the bottom right to include a previous post in your reply.

 

[GoldDigger]

The use of 3-ways would be a design issue not a code requirement as long as you have a switch on each level with 6 or more stair risers in between.

I suppose that there is no requirement (other than implied by the grammatical singular) for both switches to control the same outlet. Or they could be RF remotes rather than a wired three way.

 

[arcsnsparks98]

Im using tapatalk on my phone. I dont see that option. :-(

 

[cowboyjwc]

Sorry, I dont know how to quote previous posts but to say you dont need a 3 way, just two switches controlling one lighting outlet is like saying I dont need a rectangle, just a square with two sides longer than the other.

I understand, what I'm trying to show you is what they are trying to say, the code does not say three way.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

There is nothing in 210 that says the switches must control the same lighting outlet so a sp at the top and a sp at the bottom to different lights is compliant. I realize it is a bad design but it is compliant

 

[arcsnsparks98]

Cowboyjwc, I accept what you are saying. Doesnt mean I like it though. Lol. I am such a stickler for good design practice that it is difficult to even consider the idea of two lights and two single pole switches.

 

[infinity]

Cowboyjwc, I accept what you are saying. Doesnt mean I like it though. Lol. I am such a stickler for good design practice that it is difficult to even consider the idea of two lights and two single pole switches.

Most would agree that 3-ways are a better design option they're just not required by the NEC.