Basement/water/pump Shock

[gappvembe]

So here is the issue.

This is at my friends house, and *SOMETIMES* when they turn on the switch for the water pump, they get shocked.
Well the other week they were painting and they we just running the water {pump was *not* on} to clean the brushes, and they were getting shocked.
Of course this is in the basement with bare feet.
I opened up the switch box and nothing seemed to be out of line. (This is an older home with Romex running down the cement wall with the metal switch box mounted there).
No hot conductors seemed to be touching the box or ground.

Any ideas?

 

[480sparky]

How well is this stuff grounded, considering you said it's in a older home?

 

[gappvembe]

I didn't take a real good look. But it seemed to be grounded ok. The wire doesn't travel too far and there doesn't seem to be a break in it (like a junction box/splice/or anything).

But the reality seems to me that it points to a ground fault.

 

[480sparky]

But is that grounding mechanically complete back to the panel?

 

[billsnuff]

12-2nm or 12-2 nm w/g thinking loose connection, neutral, and current on plumbing via bond to water line. hands in water, bare feet on concrete floor, zap. JMSO

 

[gappvembe]

I'll check it out completely next time i get a chance. (it'll be a week or so). I can't remember all the details right now from memory.
I was just hoping to get a good idea of where to start.
Thanks.

 

[ptonsparky]

Hope a week isn't to late, these things can go down hill in a hurry.

 

[JohnJ0906]

Check water pipe bonding. Take volt and amp readings on pipes, metal boxes, etc. Check all connections.

But is that grounding mechanically complete back to the panel?

This too.
Thoughly check everything.

 

[mdshunk]

The motor in that pump is shot and leaky to ground. I'd bet my wife on it.

 

[peter d]

I'd bet my wife on it.

I'm sure she'd be happy to hear that.

 

[JohnJ0906]

The motor in that pump is shot and leaky to ground. I'd bet my wife on it.

C'mon now, let's give Marc the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps he meant to type "life"









Or not. :wink:

 

[quogueelectric]

Put a circuit tracer on the water pipe serving the shock and trace it back to the ckt in the pnl. Then work it back the other way.

 

[gappvembe]

Well looking again.
This is an older home. There is no ground wire.
It runs through a few recepts in the basement and one light.
The only thing I found unusual was that the switch for the pump, switched the neutral (white) wire, not the hot (black) wire. I changed that.
Like I said, the shock sensation is a temperamental thing. From my understanding occasionally you would get it at the switch box, which is all metal. The ground wire from the pump was attached to the box, but no ground from the main panel was coming in.

 

[JohnJ0906]

Well looking again.
This is an older home. There is no ground wire.
It runs through a few recepts in the basement and one light.
The only thing I found unusual was that the switch for the pump, switched the neutral (white) wire, not the hot (black) wire. I changed that.
Like I said, the shock sensation is a temperamental thing. From my understanding occasionally you would get it at the switch box, which is all metal. The ground wire from the pump was attached to the box, but no ground from the main panel was coming in.

With the EGC from the motor attached to the box, current from the motor frame would also be present on the box. I think Marc called this one. Check that motor.

 

[wbalsam1]

So here is the issue.

This is at my friends house, and *SOMETIMES* when they turn on the switch for the water pump, they get shocked.
Well the other week they were painting and they we just running the water {pump was *not* on} to clean the brushes, and they were getting shocked.
Of course this is in the basement with bare feet.
I opened up the switch box and nothing seemed to be out of line. (This is an older home with Romex running down the cement wall with the metal switch box mounted there).
No hot conductors seemed to be touching the box or ground.

Any ideas?

I wonder if the dryer is a 3-wire with the neutral connected to the dryer case and the dryer is making metallic (and electric) connection to the washing machine which enhances the neutral return current along the metallic piping?.....it's a long shot....:smile:

 

[jxofaltrds]

It is a grounding/bonding issue.

I mean:

1 If the water line is metal coming into the home and the GEC is attached prior to the 5' rule you may have objectable current on the water lines.

or

2 No bonding jumper across the water meter.

3 Loose neutral

4 current coming in from the public water lines.

Use your meter to see if you show any amps on the water lines.

Sorry I am not good at explaining things on the internet.

 

[K8MHZ]

Of course this is in the basement with bare feet.

Why not buy the wife and kids some shoes? At today's prices that probably cheaper than copper wire.

 

[Lxnxjxhx]

Divide and conquer

Divide and conquer

Induce the symptom, disconnect things until the symptom disappears.

Watch out that your strategy also works in the unlikely case that more than one thing is causing the problem.