bath/bedroom

[winker1969]

IF YOU HAVE A ROOM THAT IS DESIGNED FOR A BEDROOM BUT IT ALSO HAS EVERYTHING THAT A BATHROOM HAS INSIDE WITH NO DIVIDING WALLS OR DOORS DOES EVERYTHING IN THAT ROOM INCLUDING COUNTERTOP GFI OUTLETS BE AFCI PROTECTED? I ASKED A FORMER INSPECTOR IN MY AREA AND HE SAID NO, ALTHOUGH ANOTHER SAID HE WOULD CONSIDER THE ROOM A BEDROOM AND THAT IT WOULD HAVE TO BE AFCI PROTECTED.

 

[Guest]

Re: bath/bedroom

If it's one common room wouldn't it all be considered bedroom for AFCI purposes? You'd need an AFCI/GFCI for the receptacles in the designated wet area. Ask your AHJ for the final word. Personally, I feel it stinks to put a bathroom in a bedroom. I know one man who put a bathroom in his dining room (with walls fortunately). Yuck! It might work for a eunuch. The bathroom lighting would disturb a couple if their sleeping patterns don't mesh up perfectly. So many answers! Such a simple question! Start with 210.12(B) for bedroom AFCI, and also 210.8(A)(1)(B)(1) for bathroom GFCI.

[ October 22, 2003, 10:48 PM: Message edited by: awwt ]

 

[hurk27]

Re: bath/bedroom

Awwt:

You'd need an AFCI/GFCI for the receptacles in the designated wet area

It gets a little more complcated than that as the bath room receptacle has to be on a 20 amp circuit and GFCI protected supplying one 20 amp circuit to the whole room would be a violation as no other receptacles can be on the bath circuit and then both circuits would have to be AFCI protected. Is this a new install or an existing one?

 

[big jim]

Re: bath/bedroom

If the whole room is considered a bedroom, then the whole room should be considered a bathroom too and one 20 amp gfci, afci protected circuit might do. This unusual senario leaves a lot to interpretation. I'd ask the local AHJ what they are going to accept. I imagine whirlpool tub motors and hair driers with brush-type motors would not co-exist too well with AFCI.

 

[tonyi]

Re: bath/bedroom

Originally posted by big jim:
If the whole room is considered a bedroom, then the whole room should be considered a bathroom too and one 20 amp gfci, afci protected circuit might do.

I wouldn't do it that way even though it may be "legal" (its a very good question, and not well address by the code). A hair dryer and a room A/C or space heater would cause an overload trip.

 

[paul32]

Re: bath/bedroom

I imagine whirlpool tub motors and hair driers with brush-type motors would not co-exist too well with AFCI.

Is this actually true? The AFCI's have to be immune from other normal arcs. I'm a little concerned that when I put an AFCI on our garage door opener circuit it will be a problem. The reason to do this is the smoke detectors were put on that circuit, and will be adding new smokes in bedrooms when finishing the basement.

 

[ryan_618]

Re: bath/bedroom

Originally posted by awwt:
You'd need an AFCI/GFCI for the receptacles in the designated wet area.

Wayne, ALL bathroom receptacles need GFCI protection, not just those in "the wet area".

 

[Guest]

Re: bath/bedroom

Right. In this case maybe a better term would be "splash zone". GFCI required receptacle outlets within that zone. Since there is no wall I would expect the splash zone to extend about 6' beyond any actual bathroom area.

I'm trying to draw a line between the bathroom & the bedroom. The bathroom needs GFCI. The bedroom needs AFCI. There is no common wall, so the portion that is considered to be bathroom needs to be GFCI. Another consideration is the smoke detectors. There are restrictions about smokes on GFCI. Bedrooms require smokes. This situation gets a little complicated so I was suggesting AFCI/GFCI for the "bathroom" and AFCI only for the "bedroom". Somebody will have to draw an imaginary line to separate the two or the whole area will have to be GFCI/AFCI. I guess the smokes could be on a separate circuit, but then some AHJ's want them on the bedroom circuit.

Boy, think of the steam in that bedroom! It will take a restaurant hood sized blower to clear the room

 

[tonyi]

Re: bath/bedroom

Originally posted by awwt:
I guess the smokes could be on a separate circuit, but then some AHJ's want them on the bedroom circuit.

This isn't a mutually exclusive situation - it would just require a seperate AFCI breaker for the smoke alarms in addition to a combo AFGF(that seperate AFCI could also power all the lights in the room). Keep recepticals off it and it doesn't need GFCI. This is the way I'd do it as I try to keep low fixed loads (lights) and smoke on a seperate branch so an ordinary overload trip won't put you in the dark or nuke the smoke detectors.

The whole thing also legally be done with a single AFCI breaker followed up by a GFCI receptical feeding all downstream recepticals. The smoke alarm and lights could be tapped off the line side of the GFCI receptical or the breaker at the panel.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: bath/bedroom

This should be easy.On the blueprint for the permit it should have been given a name ,bedroom,diningroom,livingroom,bathroom.What ever it was called is what it must be wired to.If it says nothing then i would call it a large bathroom,assuming it has bathroom fixtures.If it walks like a duck--------------------------------
Often we see dining rooms that connect by imaginary lines to living room. Run some blue painters tape on floor to define seperation.Run a circuit for the bath recepticle and use gfci recepticle.Now just wire the rest on a circuit afci protected and include the smokes.If inspector says it's wrong the most you got to do is ad gfci breaker for bath.Why do i feel that walls are going up after the inspection.Don't believe your allowed to put smokes in a bathroom.Is this job permitted ?