Bathroom and Main Panel

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tjernagel

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I have a question about the main circuit breaker panel being installed in a bathroom. This is a home which was recently remodeled. The panel was originally in the garage on the outside wall. 8' were added onto the garage and the main wall for the garage moved to create an additional 8' x 22' area in the main home. This new 8' x 22' area is split in two rooms. One is a large utility room coming off the garage with the entrance to the main house, while the other space is a pocket door off the family room with no opening to to the garage area.

The pocket door space has the main panel in it as well as a skylight. The people want to convert this area to a bathroom which I have told them they cannot do because of the main panel. So I've suggested they create a 3' closet coming off the garage which would include the circuit breaker panel and the remaining space could be the bathroom.

They are insisting the main panel can be enclosed in a waterproof panel and remain the bathroom. Has anyone heard about this being done before?

I hope I have explained it well enough.

Thanks!
 
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tjernagel said:
I have a question about the main circuit breaker panel being installed in a bathroom. This is a home which was recently remodeled. The panel was originally in the garage on the outside wall. 8' were added onto the garage and the main wall for the garage moved to create an additional 8' x 22' area in the main home. This new 8' x 22' area is split in two rooms. One is a large utility room coming off the garage with the entrance to the main house, while the other space is a pocket door off the family room with no opening to to the garage area.

The pocket door space has the main panel in it as well as a skylight. The people want to convert this area to a bathroom which I have told them they cannot do because of the main panel. So I've suggested they create a 3' closet coming off the garage which would include the circuit breaker panel and the remaining space could be the bathroom.

They are insisting the main panel can be enclosed in a waterproof panel and remain the bathroom. Has anyone heard about this being done before?

I hope I have explained it well enough.

Thanks!
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I don't see this as a big problem if it is not in the shower. if all your clearences are met I would think the Building Dept. would have more issue with it being in a closet. I wouldn't wven think a water proof panel is an issue , the bath room has water but it is not a "wet location", if it were all the switchs and outlets would need to be water proof as well.
 
tjernagel said:
I have a question about the main circuit breaker panel being installed in a bathroom. This is a home which was recently remodeled. The panel was originally in the garage on the outside wall. 8' were added onto the garage and the main wall for the garage moved to create an additional 8' x 22' area in the main home. This new 8' x 22' area is split in two rooms. One is a large utility room coming off the garage with the entrance to the main house, while the other space is a pocket door off the family room with no opening to to the garage area.

The pocket door space has the main panel in it as well as a skylight. The people want to convert this area to a bathroom which I have told them they cannot do because of the main panel. So I've suggested they create a 3' closet coming off the garage which would include the circuit breaker panel and the remaining space could be the bathroom.

They are insisting the main panel can be enclosed in a waterproof panel and remain the bathroom. Has anyone heard about this being done before?

I hope I have explained it well enough.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

230.70(A)(2) Bathrooms. Service disconnecting means shall not be installed in bathrooms.

240.24(E) Not Located in Bathrooms. In dwelling units and guest rooms or guest suites of hotels and motels, overcurrent devices, other than supplementary overcurrent protection, shall not be located in bathrooms.

Does this help?
 
From what I understand about clearences, you have to have 36" available to the front of the panel and 30" on sides. Is this correct?
 
From what I understand about clearences, you have to have 36" available to the front of the panel and 30" on sides. Is this correct?
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You need to have 36" from the from the front of the enclosure and the width of the equipment or 30" whichever is greater. You aren't required 30" on each side just a minimum of 30 inches in front of the equipment.

Take a look at 110.26(A)

Chris
 
230.91 prohibits locating the service disconnect, and therefore main overcurrent device in the bathroom.

230.24(E) prohibits overcurrent devices in bathrooms of " dwelling units and guest rooms or guest suites of hotels and motels, . . .". It is slightly ambiguous in that one could argue that the "dwelling units" referred to are only those in hotels or motels, since there is not comma after "dwelling units".

If 230.24(E) does not apply to single family residences, then the disconnect with main breaker could be put outside and the existing panel could be converted to a subpanel.
 
You have an interesting situation here. The National Electrical Code forbids having such a panel in a bathroom, as Mike has already pointed out. But the intended remodel might not come under the jurisdiction of the NEC. It?s a building and plumbing code thing, not an electrical code thing.

What I mean is that you can create a bathroom without changing any electrical item. No new switch, no new light, no new heater, no new electrical anything. So the person handling the remodel might not need to get an electrical permit. As a result, there will be no electrical inspection, and nobody to hang any red tags.

On the other hand, if the owner does plan on electrical changes (lights, heaters, whatever), and therefore the project does include getting an electrical permit, then the inspector is very likely to fail the installation, as soon as he or she sees the panel in the same space.

So I have to wonder where the control is in such a situation. If the bathroom remodel does not include any electrical scope, then whose job is it to make sure a dangerous situation does not arise?
 
Panel in Bathroom

Panel in Bathroom

I have found that a lot of electrical violations are created by carpenters, drywallers, and sheet metal workers covering over or boxing in junction boxes and so forth. Actually, if the is a way for a drywaller to cover over a junction box he will - you sometimes have to install an extension ring with high strength ( nonremovable ) Locktite to keep the drywaller from removing the extension ring.

I recently had to tear off some plywood that a carpenter had used to box over some conduits and LB fittings that I had installed. His thinking was that boxing in the LBs would look better.

Same thing with sheet metal workers installing an air supply register boot right in front of a junction box.

Some plumbers will indeed run a water pipe right underneath a panelboard in a slab on grade building on the theory that most or all branch circuits cannot use the bottom knockouts and underneath the panel is easier than across the ceiling.

A lot of people do not understand why NEC flat prohibits branch, feeder, and service overcurrent devices in bathrooms. A bathroom floor can easily get a lot of water on it or a little bit of water repetitively enough that the floor becomes an electric shock hazard.

Mike Cole
 
Panel in Bathroom

Panel in Bathroom

Oh yeah, about 1/2 of people who own rental housing are moronic enough to put up drywall and then paint the walls before calling an electrician or plumber. The second time I encountered this they had torn down all of the old plaster and put up drywall and paint before calling me.

It is very hard to explain to these people that wires need to go into the wall to supply electricity. Same with water pipes.

Mike Cole
 
mc5w said:
A lot of people do not understand why NEC flat prohibits branch, feeder, and service overcurrent devices in bathrooms. A bathroom floor can easily get a lot of water on it or a little bit of water repetitively enough that the floor becomes an electric shock hazard.

Mike Cole
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Mike you may put overcurrent devices in non dwelling / non hotel bathrooms.
 
mc5w said:
Oh yeah, about 1/2 of people who own rental housing are moronic enough to put up drywall and then paint the walls before calling an electrician or plumber...
Click to expand...

The city of Watervliet NY wants permits for a rerocking job because of this. The building inspector told me they don't care about the rock, they want to see what sort of evil stuff the fools wanted to cover over ;->
 
Bathroom Panel

Bathroom Panel

I envy you. Unfortunately, some of the inspectors around here would not notice that someone has a construction dumpster out front with a conveyor belt running out to it.

I know lots of industrial electricians who are getting away witout an Ohio electrical license even though we have had state licensing for 6 years.
 
mc5w said:
A lot of people do not understand why NEC flat prohibits branch, feeder, and service overcurrent devices in bathrooms. A bathroom floor can easily get a lot of water on it or a little bit of water repetitively enough that the floor becomes an electric shock hazard.
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Mike, I doubt the reason OCPDs are restricted from bathrooms is because of the wet floor. It is likely because of the humidity present in bathrooms, and the damaging effects of it on OCPDs.

There are no restrictions from running wiring under a bathroom floor. For that matter, I don't even think there is a restriction on installing a floor receptacle in a bathroom floor, if memory serves. :D
 
jwelectric said:
230.70(A)(2) Bathrooms. Service disconnecting means shall not be installed in bathrooms.


Does this help?
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now I feel really stupid not only was I incorrect in my responce , I breezed right by the main breaker part, I need more coffee before I respond.
 
What is on the opposite side of that wall where the panel is located? Is it an outside wall?

I've done a job or 3 where we simply reversed the panel, by turning around the enclosure and making it essentially appear in the other "room"

Makes it easier to convert that utility area into a bathroom.

If you are dealing with an outside wall, then this option may not be feasible.
 
The panel is mounted on the outside wall and on the other side is the meter and power feed coming up from underground. Turning the panel around had been considered but due to the cost of moving the meter and an enclosure was dismissed.

Thanks for all the feedback!
 
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