Bathroom GFIs

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airemdwn

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A New AHJ Just failed my rough inspection,,, thats right a Rough Inspection! for having a seperate 15amp circuit installed in a bathroom, installed at my standard receptacle height in the seperate toilet area that is only there to protect a recessed shower and jacuzzi light. There are 2 - 20 amp counter receptacles installed (twin sinks)

He called me and said i would have to make it a 20 amp GFI circuit and change all the wiring or eliminate the box and use a 15 amp gfi breaker or,,, I SAY OR Move it to Inside the walk-in closet next to the bathroom?

Is it me or is this completely ridiculous.. I tried to reason with him and asked for a code reference.Stating it was obviously going to be a feed through gfi receptacle. Then i asked if i could just install a Dead Front GFI on the finish. He was unwavering. Is it me or is this ridiculous?

I sorta appreciate that he called,,, No i guess i dont. Can someone tell me if im wrong and he is right. i Am not interpreting the NEC anywhere near what hes thinking on this. IM worried when i do the next job, because maybe i wont bond the metal screws on my plastic deep 1900s! *sigh*
 
airemdwn said:
There are 2 - 20 amp counter receptacles installed (twin sinks)
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And I assume you have the required 20A Circuit as well as this additional 15A you are talking about? If so, ask him to state a code that dis-allowes it. You could have 42 extra circuits in there, so long as the panel isn't....

Sounds as though this outlet is on the lighting to GFI a light, which is not required at all, but I too have inspectors who ASK for it. I only do so as an appeasement to the powertrip......
 
If you were to install a dead front GFI, that's a switch, not a receptacle. Show him the box it comes in.

I imagine the inspector's original concern was that a cord-and-plug-connected appliance could overload the lighting circuit and leave the area without light, while the required 20A circuit went untouched. While this is a relevant design consideration, it is just that, a design issue. Ask the inspector to read 90.1(A) and (B).

The installation should pass, even with a GFCI receptacle on the lighting circuit. Once the code-required circuit is installed (210.11(C)(3)), supplying the code-required receptacles (210.52(D)), then you can add whatever you want to your heart's content.

Note: all receptacles in a bathroom require GFCI protection with no exceptions (210.8(A)(1)).
 
Unless the shower light requires GFCI protection as part of it's listing or instructions, I would simply get rid of the GFCI receptacle protecting it. Shower lights do not require GFCI protection.

As George said a dead front GFCI device would also be code compliant. I see no reason why the inspector wouldn't allow this as an added layer of protection for the lighting.
 
Minuteman said:
"dead front GFCI device" is that what some manufacturers call a "feed thru"? Looks like a regular GFCI, but has no receptacle slots?
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Most (15A) GFI receptacles have feed thru terminals on the back. The terminals allow you to feed thru on the GFI circuit and protect additional receptacles downstream. You know, the terminals with the yellow tape covering them from the factory.
Most are 15A feed thru on the GFI terminals or 20A feed thru non GFI.
A dead front GFI looks like a receptacle...less the slots.
It's used strictly for (GFI) feed thru. You can't plug anything into it.
steve
 
hillbilly said:
Most (15A) GFI receptacles have feed thru terminals on the back. The terminals allow you to feed thru on the GFI circuit and protect additional receptacles downstream. You know, the terminals with the yellow tape covering them from the factory.
Most are 15A feed thru on the GFI terminals or 20A feed thru non GFI.
A dead front GFI looks like a receptacle...less the slots.
It's used strictly for (GFI) feed thru. You can't plug anything into it.
steve
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Is'nt that what I said?
 
I think Steve's point was, they all feed through.

But yes, I think you said that. :D

Dead Front GFI's are also handy to avoid running awry of 210.23, if a dedicated circuit is pulled for say, a jacuzzi tub. Technically a jacuzzi tub would have to pull less than 50% of the circuit if a regular GFCI receptacle were used (there would be a convenience outlet in the closet, or bathroom, etc.)
 
Minuteman said:
Is'nt that what I said?
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Exactly.
Not trying to argue.
I only added to clarify that most (if not all) GFI receptacles can be fed thru.
"Dead front" GFI's are feed thru only.
It's possible that some readers didn't know this.

steve
 
hillbilly said:
Most are 15A feed thru on the GFI terminals or 20A feed thru non GFI.
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Every 15a GFCI receptacle I've ever seen was rated for 20a feed-thru, just like 15a standard receptacles are.

77401 said:
We call them GFCI switches and use them frequently for Pool lighting switches. Red is on Black is off
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If I'm not mistaken, they're not intended for constant use as switches. The contacts probably won't last long.
 
Going back to the original post, I think that the inspector is partially right. It appears that he would not accept a dead front GFCI. That IMO is an incorrect call. I see no code prohibition of a dead front GFCI to protect the recessed light. However, I do belive that a regular GFCI receptacle on the 15 amp circuit would be a violation of 210.11(C)(3). This does not create a serious problem IMO, but it is technically a violation. IMO that section requires the "at least one 20-ampere branch circuit" to supply the bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Notice the difference between 210.11(C)(3) and 210.11(C)(2) where the 20-ampere branch circuit is only required to supply the required laundry receptacle outlet(s)
 
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LarryFine said:
If I'm not mistaken, they're not intended for constant use as switches. The contacts probably won't last long.
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It's OK with UL as long as they are marked for that use, which I believe most faceless GFCIs are.
 
eprice said:
...but it is technically a violation. IMO that section requires the "at least one 20-ampere branch circuit" to supply the bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Notice the difference between 210.11(C)(3) and 210.11(C)(2) where the 20-ampere branch circuit is only required to supply the required laundry receptacle outlet(s)
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Bold italisized, and underlined added by me... "at least one 20a"

210.11C(3) Bathroom Branch Circuits. In addition to the number of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at least one 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided to supply the bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Such circuits shall have no other outlets.
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Having 5~50 additional 15A or 20A dedicated or general use circuits feeding recepticals or lighting in the bathroom is not a violation, so long as the "at least one" 20A required circuit for the bath, or baths is covered. (You could have an infinate number of bathrooms, and outlets on that circuit, so long at it only served outlets in bathrooms.) And that one would serve the 210.52(D) required outlets, even though that code doesn't actually say that those recepticals be on that required 210.11C(2) required circuit. It just says there needs to be recepticals in a certain area near the basins.... Nothing about those being 20a. :rolleyes: Or in any other way linking the two seperate codes.

The same would hold true for a laundry but not kitchen.... (The counter tops need to be 20A, but you could put in 15A general use on the walls, or for that matter the cieling. ) ;)
 
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