Bathroom house circuit

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I'm curious about the rule to have a dedicated 20A circuit to a bathroom (in a house). Since when is this a rule, and why is there this rule. Here in the Canadian Electric Code this is no requirement for this. The bathrooms here are wired on with other plugs and lights with no problems. Actually my employer offen feeds one GFI recep. and loops it to another bath. recep. in a different bathroom so that only one GFI is needed. (save $$) How does this sound?
 
G

Guest

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Re: Bathroom house circuit

Modern bathrooms have heavier usage. Circuits were overloaded. Breakers were tripping. Some folks even brought extension cords in from non-GFCI protected receptacles to add to the capacity of their weak bathroom circuits.

Hats off to Canada from what we'd heard so far about the Canadian EC. We used to do it that way too, but it didn't work out in the USA.

[ October 23, 2003, 10:54 PM: Message edited by: awwt ]
 
Re: Bathroom house circuit

Hey Wayne, There are other codes changes the states have made but we (CEC) haven't. Eg. Kitchen receps. here require at least 2 and they can be splits or 20A recep. most EC go to splits because more capacity. But the new code (2002) has come out requiring GFI within 3' of the kit. sink. Since there are no split GFI's yet, my employer (and many others) are using strictly 20A circuits instead. (simplicity i guess?)
 

dereckbc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Plano, TX
Re: Bathroom house circuit

Originally posted by zoltrix717:
Since when is this a rule, and why is there this rule. Actually my employer offen feeds one GFI recep. and loops it to another bath. recep. in a different bathroom so that only one GFI is needed. (save $$) How does this sound?
Not sure on the when part,the why part is blow dryers and curling irons.

How does this sound? No comment. You said it, $$$$
 

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Re: Bathroom house circuit

I'm curious about the rule to have a dedicated 20A circuit to a bathroom (in a house). Since when is this a rule, and why is there this rule.
I think the 20 amp bathroom circuit rule was added in the '93 or '96 code but I'm not positive. As was already pointed out, people started using high-wattage hair dryers and curling irons thus requiring the need for a higher amperage circuit.
Actually my employer offen feeds one GFI recep. and loops it to another bath. recep. in a different bathroom so that only one GFI is needed. (save $$) How does this sound?
It's perfectly acceptable to do this. However, it presents a convenience problem. If you have 4 bathrooms in a residence and you install the GFI in the bathroom closest to the breaker panel, if you're in one of the 2nd floor bathrooms and you trip the GFI you'll have to go down to the 1st floor bathroom and reset it. By the same token you can use a GFI circuit breaker (a bit more expensive) but this has 2 down sides : 1) if the breaker trips you'll have to go down to the breaker panel to reset and 2) If the breaker trips you won't know if it's a ground fault problem or an overload.
If you're working track housing with only (2) bathrooms per unit that's one thing. But if you're working in million dollar homes, installing (1) GFI receptacle in the 1st bathroom is really taking the CHEAP way out.

[ October 24, 2003, 07:23 AM: Message edited by: goldstar ]
 

hurk27

Senior Member
Re: Bathroom house circuit

as posted by: zoltrix717
Actually my employer offen feeds one GFI recep. and loops it to another bath. recep. in a different bathroom so that only one GFI is needed. (save $$) How does this sound?
We use to do this but found many happier customers when they dont have to go to other bathroom to reset it before they get there hair dried. We now keep GFCI's in same room with the receptacle/'s that there protecting.
 

electricmanscott

Senior Member
Location
Boston, MA
Re: Bathroom house circuit

Actually my employer offen feeds one GFI recep. and loops it to another bath. recep. in a different bathroom so that only one GFI is needed. (save $$) How does this sound?
This sounds idiotic. It's a poor job for the customer. A gfi costs $11.00. Running one circuit from bath to bath can't be much cheaper than that. This is like driving five miles to find a gas station so you can save three cents a gallon.
 

drtymex

Member
Re: Bathroom house circuit

Well to answer your question,210-11(c)(3,states:
At least one 20 ampere circuit shall be provided
to supply the bathroom recptacle OUTLET(S).
BUT,,,,,the exception right below that permits a single 20 amp circuit supply a single bathroom and outlets for other equipment in the same bath room.
With that stated,go to 210-23(a)allows for the supply of lighting or utilization equipment or a combo of both.

SO WHY WOULD YOU JUST RUN ONE CIRCUIT FOR ALL OF THE BATHROOM GFI'S?
IS IT THAT MUCH MORE SAVINGS IN COST COMPARED TO JUST RUNNING A DEDICATED CIRCUIT FOR A BATHROOM?
2 HAIRDRYERS AT 1200W TO 1800W A PEICE,DOESN'T TAKE MUCH TO OVERLOAD THAT 20 AMP. CIRCUIT.
 

hillbilly

Senior Member
Re: Bathroom house circuit

This is one of those gray areas where I think that the code is a little lacking. Suppose that I run 1 20A circuit to feed everything in a bathroom per 210-11.(3)Exception. On this circuit I place the lights and a Heater/Ventilator in which the heater draws 8 amps and the bathroom lights draw 2 amps. On a cold day someone takes a bath and then plugs in a 1800 watt hairdryer while the heater and lights are on. What happens? This is why I always run a individual 20A circuit to the receptacle and another 15A for the lights and heat/vent. I may be overkilling it but I haven't had a call back because the bathroom breaker "tripped". Sometimes more is better.
steve
 

electricmanscott

Senior Member
Location
Boston, MA
Re: Bathroom house circuit

Hillbilly, most heat/ vent units that I see require a 20 amp feed per manufacturers instructions. total connected load 1727 watts @ 120 volts= 14.39 amps. This is from a Nutone catalog.
 

hillbilly

Senior Member
Re: Bathroom house circuit

electricmanscott; I've never used that big a HLV in a bath, although if I did I'd feed it with a 20A circuit. The point that I was trying to make is that in my opinion the exception to 210-11.(3) needs to be eliminated or modified, it's too ambiguous.
 

electricmanscott

Senior Member
Location
Boston, MA
Re: Bathroom house circuit

I don't think it is ambiguous at all. In fact I think it is one of the more clearly written rules. It is how you use it that can create trouble. Just as with many other articles. The exception is needed so you can feed something like a fan over a shower that requires gfci protection will not need a seperate circuit just for that purpose. 210.23 A (2) Would not allow you to put a heat vent light (all the Nutone ones are 1500 watts + fan+ light) on the bath receptacle circuit because it would exceed 50 % of the branch circuit rating. Therfore this is a non issue for code complying installations. To me the article is fine.

[ October 25, 2003, 12:14 PM: Message edited by: electricmanscott ]
 
G

Guest

Guest
Re: Bathroom house circuit

Originally posted by hillbilly:
The HLV in my bathroom is a Broan unit that's rated at 8.6A, enlighten me.
Does it use resistive heat or does it use heat lamps? What's the model #? I've got a mac daddy Broan H/V/L/NL but it specifies 20-amp dedicated circuit. The irritating part is the heater portion is backstabbed at the factory switch! I've been out of the trade long enough that I thought there was a difference between Nutone & Broan. When I called about the backstab situation I found out that Nutone swallowed Broan, but chooses to use the Broan brand name. In the old days Nutone was aces, and Broan was tract stuff.

If there is no built-in heat many folks will plug a 1500-watt portable space heater into their bathroom circuit; plus a 1500-watt hair dryer; etc. They may squeak by if the heater is run on low or medium-- until they plug in the hot curlers or the curling iron-- and that's just in bathroom #1.
 

pierre

Senior Member
Re: Bathroom house circuit

Drtymex
I think that sometimes people lose sight of the real cost of things and will penny pinch, then when the customer calls that is when the B$ really starts to flow. I have myself seen this time and again when I go to a customer and I suggest something and the response is: The other electrician told me ..... and if I did that it would be a big problem. Then I try to educate them as to the proper way and they look at me cross eyed, thinking I am trying to rip them off. So I guess it depends on who gets to the job first to see what kind of installation will be installed.

As far as how the NEC deals with the bathroom circuit, remember the code deals with SAFETY, not design. If it is safe, you are good to go. The design aspect is up to the installer, and this to me will show the true color of the installer. I will say that there are some jobs that justify the 'minimum' installation, that judgement again is up to the installer.

Pierre

[ October 26, 2003, 08:08 AM: Message edited by: pierre ]
 
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