Bathroom lighting

Status
Not open for further replies.
1793

1793

Senior Member
Location
Louisville, Kentucky
Occupation
Inspector
I would like to get some input to a quandary I?m in about two sections of the 2002 Code. I know this has more than likely been covered before, but I can?t seem to locate the answer I?m looking for.

With regard to Article 210.11 ( C )(3)Bathroom Branch Circuits. In addition to the number of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at least one 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided to supply the bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Such circuits shall have no other outlets.

Exception: Where the 20-ampere circuit supplies a single bathroom, outlets for other equipment within the same bathroom shall be permitted to be supplied in accordance with 210.23(A).


Article 210.23 Permissible loads. In no case shall the load exceed the branch-circuit ampere rating. An individual branch circuit shall be permitted to supply any load for which it is rated. A branch circuit supplying two or more outlets or receptacles shall supply only the loads specified according to its size as specified in 210.23(A) through (D) and as summarized in 210.24 and Table 210.24

210.23(A) 15- and 20 Ampere Branch Circuits. A 15- or 20- ampere branch circuit shall be permitted to supply lighting units or other utilization equipment, or a combination of both, and shall comply with 210.23(A)(1) and (A)(2).

Exception: The small appliance branch circuits, laundry branch circuits, and bathroom branch circuits required in a dwelling unit(s) by 210.11( C )(1), (2), and (3) shall supply only the receptacle outlets specified in that section.

With all of that said my question: Can lighting, vanity lights and or an Exhaust Fan, be put on the same 20 ampere circuit as the receptacle in a bathroom? It appears to me that I can, 210( C )(3), but then the Exception referring to 210.23(A) says NO when I look at 210.23(A) Exception.

What is an individual to do? Any help would be greatly welcomed.

Norb
 
Re: Bathroom lighting

I think this may answer your question
2-115 Log #3330 NEC-P02
(210-11(C)(3) Exception)
Final Action: Accept in Principle
Submitter: Charles M. Trout, Maron Electric Co. Inc.
Recommendation:
Revise text to read as follows:
Exception: Where the 20-ampere circuit supplies a single bathroom, outlets for other equipment within the same bathroom shall be
permitted to be supplied in accordance with 210.23(A).
Substantiation:
The reference to 210.23(A) includes the Exception to 210.23(A), which includes the wording that the bathroom branch circuits required
by 210.11(C)(3) shall supply only the receptacle outlets specified in that section. The intent of the Exception to 210.11(C)(3) is to
permit outlets for other equipment to be supplied. Reference to 210.23(A) conflicts with that intent by limiting the other outlets to
receptacle outlets.
Panel Meeting Action: Accept in Principle
Revise 210.11(C)(3) Exception in the 2002 NEC to read:
Exception: Where the 20-amp circuit supplies a single bathroom, outlets for other equipment within the same bathroom shall be
permitted to be supplied in accordance with 210.23(A)(1) and (2).
Panel Statement:
The panel revision of 210.11(C)(3) addresses the concern expressed in the recommendation and substantiation.
Number Eligible to Vote: 13
Affirmative: 13 Ballot Results:


Charlie
 
Re: Bathroom lighting

The code making panel that writes Article 210 has a habbit of writing code in loops. Depending on where you stop in the loop it seems to say something different. And in my opinion it actually does.

This one is almost always accepted as:

For 1 bathroom you can include the lighting and other loads on the receptacle circuit.

For more than 1 bathroom you can only supply outlet receptacles if you are using only the one circuit. The lighting will have to on a different circuit.

Someone posted a while back that they had an inspector interpreting it as you cannot include other loads in a single bathroom. But that was the only time I've heard of that.

I don't think you'll need to but you could always check with your AHJ to make sure.
 
Re: Bathroom lighting

Be wary of pulling a 20 amp circuit into a master bath and feeding the lights and receptacles in that bathroom ( alone! )You have to use common sense :eek: Look at what`s in that bathroom IE: LARGE vanity strips , recessed cans ,Vent lights.....Oh and I have forgot Mrs.happy H/O`r that has a commercial hairdryer and a curling iron on at the same time :D Our call backs have told us not to fix what isn`t broken.Feed the first baths receptacles and jump from there.Lighting on a branch circuit,at least if Mrs, H/O`R trips the receptacle breaker she wont break her _ _ _ going to her hubby to tell him she can`t dry her hair ;)
 
Re: Bathroom lighting

There are 2 ways to go about wiring bathrooms. You need to take in consideration how far apart and how accessible is each bath from a rough-in standpoint.

Method 1.

Wire all of the receptacles from all bathrooms on one circuit. With any design still use common sense. I only wire up to four receptacles on each bath circuit. When you leave the bath area, you can only pick up receptacles in other bath areas.


Method 2.

Have each bath self contained. You can wire the contents of one bath to one circuit. You can not leave the bathroom with this method. (Even if the switch for the bathroom is in another room like a master bed room). Most inspectors would probably let this go, mine doesn't. Now this requires common sense. Put your wall heaters on their own cirucits and if the bath area is large, you might want to consider using two circuits. Of course with this method, exclude your jacuzzi tubs. Have them on their own circuit. Think about the contents of the bath. Like someone mentioned above, master bedrooms are good candidates for an extra circuit. This method is good if you have a very large house and the baths are spread out far apart or it is hard to access all baths together.
 
Re: Bathroom lighting

I have had bathrooms that needed 3 circuits.With upwards of 10 cans 2 vanity lights and heat lamps as well as his and her vanity receptacles.Yes as Allen said ,use your head and do some math.For a simple bath with vanity light,can over tub,fart fan and a duplex ,sure go for it
 
Re: Bathroom lighting

Alright Wayne, I can't help myself. :D

So, is a switch equipment being supplied?
 
Re: Bathroom lighting

Your absolutely right. I agree. My local inspector says this. If you wire a switch to the outside of the room, you then supply a feed to the bedroom. Now someone could use this feed to supply something in the bedroom if needed. I think its silly, and my inspector is obviously silly. He has made me move a switch into the bathroom even though the french doors swing into the bath. So the switch is now behind the door. :confused: i suppose if you farmer switch them he has no beef

[ February 15, 2005, 08:17 PM: Message edited by: aelectricalman ]
 
Re: Bathroom lighting

If you wanted to have the lighting switches in the kitchen there is nothing in the NEC that prevents this :D Our situatiom came up with a vent light over a shower fed the master bathroom with 20 a gfci breaker and as posted the hair blower required it`s own circuitPOP goes the weasel. H/O`R in the dark service call follows.All is working NDF :D
 
Re: Bathroom lighting

1. Switch is not a outlet
2. Outlet and load is in bathroom
3. Inspectors are not fortune tellers!
4. Would the switch need AFCI? Naaaaaaaaaaaaaa :D

[ February 15, 2005, 09:13 PM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]
 
Re: Bathroom lighting

Trouble maker.
laughing-smiley-014.gif
 
Re: Bathroom lighting

My customer wants to take the bathroom of a 70 year old home, with all sorts of "outlets" covered by all sorts of "circuits" and clean them up. He would like to consolidate where he can. The house is only 1300 sq'. This particular bathroom is about 7 x 10. There is central heat so baseboard heaters will not be installed. Customer wants a light over the mirror for the sink and a receptacle, GFCI. Everything will stay within this room. I would like to put these two outlets together on a single 20 ampere circuit.

Norb

[ February 16, 2005, 07:19 AM: Message edited by: 1793 ]
 
Re: Bathroom lighting

Thanks George, I learn something new on this site everyday. Thats a nice trick to have in your bag.
 
Re: Bathroom lighting

It`s a dead end switch loop.Done sinse the 20`s when a trunk line was wired in homes and switches were introducedl,ever see a service tech that has never seen 3 ways dead ended on both ends,Or a 4 way switched and fed from same location ????
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top