Beating a dead horse????????????

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fletcher

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Detroit Michigan
Hello,

I think it was last July that I posted a photo of an electric hot water tank that was not hard wired. It had a plug and plugged into a nearby 220 outlet just like an electric stove or dryer.

At the time, most electricians said this was not in compliance with NEC. But then some electricians said it was okay.

Well, I ran into another electric hot water tank that was wired the same way (with a plug) and not hard wired. Sorry, no photo this time.

My question is, has there been any updates on this issue? Anybody seen or heard anything pro or con on the plug-in hot water tanks??
 
In the county where I reside, hot water heaters are required to be cord and plug connected.

NEC 2005 Article 422.16(A) deals with this subject. It helps to facilitate the frequent interchange of appliances.
 
why is that? dose the wire have to be in MC or Flex?

aside from the obvious hot exhaust pipe melting the insulation on an IMPROPERLY installed cord, what is the problem? are there probems with the cord head getting too hot or what?

just curious
 
fletcher said:
aside from the obvious hot exhaust pipe melting the insulation on an IMPROPERLY installed cord, what is the problem?
just curious
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FYI: Electric water heaters do not have hot exhaust pipes .
 
LOL.....yeah.....I see yer point. can't believe I said that.

so, why not a plug????????????????

I read that the plumbers union in NY is against waterless urinals. I guess the reason is less plumbing work to do. (I guess the union is pretty "pissed off" about this.)

The painters union was against the paint roller when it was first introduced. It was too fast and they all thought they would run out of work.

Is the plug on the hw tank the same sort of thing....electrician are against it because it would be easier to change it out?

Is there a difference between a 220 stove and a hot water tank that I do not know about????
 
It would be quite a stretch to apply either part (1) or (2) under 422.16(A) to apply to an electric storage water heater. :shock:
 
I don't know of anything in the code that prohibits using a cord and plug for a hot water heater. As long as "the appliance is intended or identified for flexible cord connection" [422.16(A)], it should be OK.

I very rarely deal with water heaters, as the houses around here use gas with pilot lights for the most part. The last one I dealt with was a gas model with electronic ignition, and it came with a 120V cord-n-plug.

Personally, I try to put myself in the consumer's shoes when I consider options on how to do a job. I don't push the more expensive option just because I'd make more money on it. I usually install the cord-n-plug option whenever possible, and I point out to the customer that doing it that way will save them money down the road if they ever want to change the appliance. Doing this kind of thing leaves me with happy customers, the kind who tell their friends and relatives about me.
 
electricman2 said:
It would be quite a stretch to apply either part (1) or (2) under 422.16(A) to apply to an electric storage water heater. :shock:
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If the pipe connections are brazed, then I agree. If the pipe connections are compression fittings, I think that part (2) is not a stretch.
 
tshea said:
fletcher said:
aside from the obvious hot exhaust pipe melting the insulation on an IMPROPERLY installed cord, what is the problem?
just curious
Click to expand...

FYI: Electric water heaters do not have hot exhaust pipes .
Click to expand...
True, but they do have hot water pipes that could do bad things, if they came into contact with a flexible cord.
 
I've noticed some reference to frequent interchange. How often is a water heater replaced? I've had mine installed for over 10 years and haven't unhooked a wire yet. In fact, I've only replaced one water heater in the past 25 years.

Bob
 
charlie b said:
electricman2 said:
It would be quite a stretch to apply either part (1) or (2) under 422.16(A) to apply to an electric storage water heater. :shock:
Click to expand...
If the pipe connections are brazed, then I agree. If the pipe connections are compression fittings, I think that part (2) is not a stretch.
Click to expand...

Can't argue with that I guess, but wouldn't the phrase following the word "and" at the end of part (2) require that the manufacturer state that it is identified or intended for cord?
 
According to the UL White Book, household storage tank water heaters are "intended for household use in ordinary locations and permanent connection to the supply source in accordance with the National Electrical Code."
 
electricman2 said:
. . . but wouldn't the phrase following the word "and" at the end of part (2) require that the manufacturer state that it is identified or intended for cord?
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Yes, I would agree with you there. That is why I limited my statement to "it would not be a stretch," instead of going further and saying "it is certainly allowed."
 
let me ask the question a different way.

why don't you have to hardwire an electric stove or dryer. why does NEC allow a cord. the HOT exhaust pipe on the rear of an electric dryer could melt the cord.

just being devil's advocate here.

i guess the simple answer is, "it's okay because the code book says so."

someone on a different board, who was not an electrician, told me that cords are not as safe as hard wire set ups. he said cords melt???? is this true?
 
fletcher said:
let me ask the question a different way.

why don't you have to hardwire an electric stove or dryer. why does NEC allow a cord. the HOT exhaust pipe on the rear of an electric dryer could melt the cord.
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I don't think so. I don't think the duct gets that hot. Also some people are using the plastic duct (no no) and it gets very warm. I believe the cords are heavier.

someone on a different board, who was not an electrician, told me that cords are not as safe as hard wire set ups. he said cords melt???? is this true?
Click to expand...

I say the water heater is a permanent appliance, especially if it is soldered into palce with no unions in the piping. The arrangement of the shut off valve(s) is also an indicator.

Most (some) people take their range when they move. I don't know too many people who take their water heater on moving day.
 
I worked in a one horse town a while back that the only inspector *REQUIRED* cord & plug for the HW tanks as the disconnecting means. Said that the little HW closets did not have enough clearance space for a A/C type disconnect.

Since that time, I have installed several hard wired HW tanks without a disconnect.
 
bthielen said:
I've noticed some reference to frequent interchange. How often is a water heater replaced? I've had mine installed for over 10 years and haven't unhooked a wire yet. In fact, I've only replaced one water heater in the past 25 years.
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The same could be said about ranges and dryers. They're permanent until they have to be replaced.
 
I have always been required to have a means of diconnect in sight of any device, appliance, motor, ect requiring electricity. Might just be the local code here where I am.
 
Quote:

someone on a different board, who was not an electrician, told me that cords are not as safe as hard wire set ups. he said cords melt???? is this true?

Don't let anyone kid you, cords do melt. :p So does hard wire set ups when not done properly.
 
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