beauty salon load calc

[westelectric]

Heres what I have.
Existing service is 100amp 120/208v 3 phase
Lighting 600sq ft @3 va per = 1800va
signage (doubt it will be lit)=1200va
5 separate circuits for hair dryers @ 1800va each=9000va
20 receptacles @ 180va each=3600va
2 seated hair dryers@1800va each=3600va
1 microwave@1500va
1 mini fridge@400va
heat=15.8kva (larger load than the a/c)
This totals 37000va

37000/360=102.78

If I upgrade to 125amp should I be safe.
Existing panel is 125a rated. I could re use it.

Or.... am I cutting it too close.
Am I missing anything obvious?

Thanks

 

[chris kennedy]

You sure you have 16kw heat for 600ft?? At 208V 1? or 3??

 

[cadpoint]

H 2 O and heat it!

 

[westelectric]

You sure you have 16kw heat for 600ft?? At 208V 1? or 3??

Yes. 208v 3 phase. Nameplate says 15.8kw. The unit is fed with 2 cirs totalling 15.8

 

[benaround]

Mike, What is 37000/360=102.7

what is the 360?

 

[westelectric]

Mike, What is 37000/360=102.7

what is the 360?

Divide total va by 360 instead of dividing by 208 and then 1.732
Just makes it that much easier.

 

[benaround]

Divide total va by 360 instead of dividing by 208 and then 1.732
Just makes it that much easier.

I like that, thanks, So 125x360=45000 it's close but still 80%. What kind of hot water tank

will be used ? Must be gas. I see your concern, if they add a little here and there and then

they are on the phone asking you why did the main trip.

 

[JFletcher]

Looks good - what capacity is the AC unit? My mother's shop uses a 5 ton, which is adequate, for 800ftsq2, and it runs much more than the heat does.

Her shop has 10 seated hair dryers, fwiw.

You may need a bit more lighting, but nothing that will affect the panel rating.

Any chance that a washer and dryer (for shop towels) will be installed?

 

[mxslick]

Assume that a salon will expand and always figure on hairdryers (especially the sit-down kind) as a continuous load. (They can and do run for over an hour at a time.) (And before some wise guy points out Code defines a continuous load as 3+ hours, the Code doesn't always reflect reality.)

See THIS THREAD for a related discussion. :grin:

 

[westelectric]

Looks good - what capacity is the AC unit? My mother's shop uses a 5 ton, which is adequate, for 800ftsq2, and it runs much more than the heat does.

Her shop has 10 seated hair dryers, fwiw.

You may need a bit more lighting, but nothing that will affect the panel rating.

Any chance that a washer and dryer (for shop towels) will be installed?

AC is less than the heat. There will only be 2 seated hair dryers. Am I correct in assuming the wattage at 1800? This is what Ive heard from others. I havent gotten cut sheets yet. Lighting will all be LED in the work areas and fluorescent in the others. Washer and dryer yes. If its gas I could use the 125amp service and re use the existing panel. Sounds good? If its electric I'll have to upgrade. I'll find out soon. Thanks.

 

[cadpoint]

Well most of this will not go again the Big Calc?

Not all areas of this fine country are the same, sometimes about some things!

Around these parts make sure there's at least a UL label on any client chair, if unknown call and get manufactures cut sheet and their number, slip it in the JF.

So where still electricians thinking about water...

I did not see any mention of GFCI's.

H2O - Timer ?

W / D (good pick-up)

Mop sink ( I say that cause I know one Plumber/ Electrician)

Exit Sign ~ maybe a bug eye ?

No security mentioned & Telephone or TV/ ...?

Maybe a light and or receptacle contactor ?

 

[JFletcher]

Good post and link, mxslick.

westelectric, some hand held and chair dryers are pushing 2000W these days.

The only other high-load device I can think of that may be hooked up is a large floor buffer, but it's not going to be used while all those dryers are running.

 

[westelectric]

Well most of this will not go again the Big Calc?

Not all areas of this fine country are the same, sometimes about some things!

Around these parts make sure there's at least a UL label on any client chair, if unknown call and get manufactures cut sheet and their number, slip it in the JF.

So where still electricians thinking about water...

I did not see any mention of GFCI's.

H2O - Timer ?

W / D (good pick-up)

Mop sink ( I say that cause I know one Plumber/ Electrician)

Exit Sign ~ maybe a bug eye ?

No security mentioned & Telephone or TV/ ...?

Maybe a light and or receptacle contactor ?

Gfci's - got em at mop sink and shampoo chairs
exit/emergency lights- got em
tel/tv - got em
no security
Thanks

 

[westelectric]

Good post and link, mxslick.

westelectric, some hand held and chair dryers are pushing 2000W these days.

The only other high-load device I can think of that may be hooked up is a large floor buffer, but it's not going to be used while all those dryers are running.

The hand helds are 1800w
Still waiting for the cuts on the seated dryers
Floor buffer-who knows???

 

[kkscheid]

Diversity

Diversity

Ever heard of using diversity in the calcs? With any sort of diversity rating, you will be fine with the 100A (technically). However, like others have said the salon will probably expand, add hair dryers, etc. That said, if you upgrade, definately go to 150A or I'd even recommend a 200A panel. If this is a separate building, give the load calcs to the utility co. and let them size the transformer but install a 200A panel. My experience here in Indiana is that the utility co. always supplies a smaller transformer than what is indicated by the load calcs. If the load calcs indicate a larger service than what the utility installs, it is on them, not you.

I did the Engineering on one of these little salons last year.

Hope this helps...

 

[mxslick]

Ever heard of using diversity in the calcs? With any sort of diversity rating, you will be fine with the 100A (technically). However, like others have said the salon will probably expand, add hair dryers, etc. That said, if you upgrade, definately go to 150A or I'd even recommend a 200A panel. If this is a separate building, give the load calcs to the utility co. and let them size the transformer but install a 200A panel. My experience here in Indiana is that the utility co. always supplies a smaller transformer than what is indicated by the load calcs. If the load calcs indicate a larger service than what the utility installs, it is on them, not you.

I did the Engineering on one of these little salons last year.

Hope this helps...

(Bold added by me.)


Sure, Code allows you to use diversity factors in the calcs, and in theory there would be nothing wrong with that, BUT:

My real-world experience with my brother-in-law's salon (which I would call medium sized) has shown that a Code-minimum installation WILL result in tripped mains and other problems. (In the thread I linked above read my post about the other salon in the same complex that lost their panel up in flames during a brownout.)

ANY salon can easily get into a "max loading" situation quite easily, if say for example a wedding party or other group shows up to get hair done for an event. Happens all the time in my BIL's salon.

IMHO the true professional will always take a deeper look into the use of a facility when planning a service install/upgrade and will bid/spec an installation that would be more than just "Code-compliant."

And a client worth doing business with will accept a professional explanation of why one's bid may be higher than the other guys.