Bid Advice

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zcanyonboltz

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I will be getting my RW soon and have been in the trade for a good while doing new work. Can anyone please point me to a good resource or give advice on residential remodel and service work pricing?

This is the side work I've been doing lately . Add a circuit for smokes/remodel in the smokes , entire house aluminum to copper pig tailing install new devices gfi's where required, remodel in a 240 dryer outlet and a 20A clothes washer outlet, changing out all devices and lights in an older house, adding a 240 in the garage and a dedicated 20A for a garage freezer, remodel in cans in the kitchen etc... Run a 1/0 copper underground feeder in pvc to a detached garage install a 150A panel, add branch circuits for lights and outlets, welder, compressor. Or the basic "my bedroom light doesn't work" and I go in and fix a bad pigtail, or "my stove won't turn on" and it needs a new breaker. I usually add up the openings and charge $30 per,homeowner buys material for new type work like the garage job. But as you know remodel and service is very different time wise. Thanks hope this isn't too long a post:)

One guy I know said to figure what material will cost and triple it, some say $100 an hour plus 25% of material but sometimes that's too low when you finish fast.
 
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zcanyonboltz said:
...
One guy I know said to figure what material will cost and triple it, some say $100 an hour plus 25% of material but sometimes that's too low when you finish fast.
Click to expand...

I'm a box of Rocks when it comes to bidding...
I only wanted to say that a car repair person don't charge less if they finish faster.

Look up flat rate pricing...
 
There are some good threads on here that really break down sound pricing although they are based on liscence bonding insurance inspections and warranty so they may not apply based on your post.
 
Commercial service work where you have your regular customers is usually by the hour with a markup for material and a one-way trip charge (to get to that job from the previous job).

On flat rate jobs you are going to have to figure out how many hours it will take, how much travel, something for markup in materials, etc. and bid it that way. As you get more experienced you will be better able to dial in those numbers.
 
Yea I'll just get better at guessing what people can afford lol. Thanks for the info. My buddys a car mechanic and he says they have a flat rate book that tells time estimates for jobs and then they mark up material, sometimes up to 350%. If they could just make a book for an 1940s house with no insulation left on the wires in the box that held held together with duct tape from whoever owned in it 1959. I guess my point is pricing is kinda hard before hand when you never really no how much you're going find the more you open up.
 
I fibbed...

The owner of this web site sells some estimating books, there is the all kinds of
books related to the trade and estimating, at the book stores and of course on-line.
You might be able to pick up something right away at the box store like, "dewalt estimating", or the like.

Do not use a sq ft price! For one you working in a X or Y directions and it not viable.
You can use the Sq/ft summaries after your finish to realize job aspects, but it's crazy to use sq/ft.
Other trades use Sq/ ft pricing because they work in those sum's.

Go to the Flat rate pricing software page, and sign up there you can do the math of adding up all your costs of doing the job, and it's extensive!

This might be a time and material which is different pricing again if you know it's going to be a bear.

Bottom line is you have to get enough money to pay yourself, your taxes, SS, the other outstanding bills required to complete the job!

Seems endless? Well, yes it is!
 
zcanyonboltz said:
Thanks for the info! You're right about it seeming endless , and the time spent just getting the material.
Click to expand...

http://www.electricalflatrate.com/

a number of people here use his service, and i've never heard a bad word about it.

honestly, if you don't do flat rate pricing, you are going to be working for free, or close to it.
some may holler bullshit on that, but that was my experience.

for flat rate pricing crash course, go here:

http://www.ellenrohr.com/

plumbers and hvac guys are mostly who she works with, but she's smart and fast.

you need to spend $10 on her weekend business plan, and then do it. you reverse engineer
your selling point based on what you have to sell, and how much time you have to sell it.

don't be shocked if to make any money beyond subsistence, your billable hour ends up being
above $150. there's a lot of wheelspin you have to eat, in order to eat.
 
Fulthrotl said:
http://www.electricalflatrate.com/

a number of people here use his service, and i've never heard a bad word about it.

honestly, if you don't do flat rate pricing, you are going to be working for free, or close to it.
some may holler bullshit on that, but that was my experience.

for flat rate pricing crash course, go here:

http://www.ellenrohr.com/

plumbers and hvac guys are mostly who she works with, but she's smart and fast.

you need to spend $10 on her weekend business plan, and then do it. you reverse engineer
your selling point based on what you have to sell, and how much time you have to sell it.

don't be shocked if to make any money beyond subsistence, your billable hour ends up being
above $150. there's a lot of wheelspin you have to eat, in order to eat.
Click to expand...

Nice I'll be looking into those tonight. Yea the flat rates will help a lot. I've done the charge by the hour work and when the work goes fast I feel like I didn't make what the job was worth. Then if you go up hourly people thinks it sounds too high. Its weird if I tell them a flat rate it goes over better than an hourly rate. Most guys I know tell me not to charge by the hour because you undercut yourself but then you gotta learn the way to charge flat rate which is what Im trying to do. Thanks
 
sounds like you are virtually doing a whole rewire job. i am confused about the copper pigtails on aluminum wire. are you saying the whole house is wired in aluminum wire? then rip it all out and bid it at around $10sf. i dont think you will go wrong with that in worst case scenario, ie old insulation. i no longer will do whole house rewires with blow in insulation left in place. that is just ridiculous. And some of that stuff, you just have to bid by the hour, even if you have a flat rate book, like putting pigtails on wires. It sounds like a giant pita to leave existing wire in and i could see where it might even take almost as long as rewiring, unless you have a two story building, in which case you want to leave the light wiring, if possible. Man, you are talking about something that has really become one of my most disliked jobs. Think of all the crawling around and breathing insulation, rat poop, plaster? dust, etc. Wear a mask. I charge $1600 for a panel change, 24 for a service change, and $350/ckt (with one box) cause you need a $50 bkr now for almost everything in the house. And the afi/gfi bkrs are out so almost always get the combos. One reason i am starting to just despise resi work are the gd lite fixtures you get now at lowes. what CRAP. they almost all have metric screws, or as some hardware guy called it, a 7/32 screw. GOOD LUCK trying to use a screw cutter on one of those to mount a lite, and throw them away if you have mount a light to a box. i just spent THREE HOURS trying to make this POS work. the screws had to be cut because they used one hole nuts (whatever you call those) to attach the fixture to the bracket and the screws were too long. once you cut them the nuts dont go on because you don't have a metric screw cutter. and then the bracket was too tall for the pancake box, after i tapped the holes out to 8s. so you couldn't tighten it up enuf to press against the sheet rock. INVARIABLY the fixture screws will hit the edge of the box in the wall and stop. unbelievable the GARBAGE that the UL is approving from china, as well as the cheapness of US products as well, like an Eaton 150A transformer we just installed that bent the frame all up just by moving and twisting it into position. it is making me wish i'd have been a plumber instead. have fun with this project of yours. hope you don't lose your shirt
 
Last edited:
zcanyonboltz said:
I will be getting my RW soon and have been in the trade for a good while doing new work. Can anyone please point me to a good resource or give advice on residential remodel and service work pricing?

This is the side work I've been doing lately . Add a circuit for smokes/remodel in the smokes , entire house aluminum to copper pig tailing install new devices gfi's where required, remodel in a 240 dryer outlet and a 20A clothes washer outlet, changing out all devices and lights in an older house, adding a 240 in the garage and a dedicated 20A for a garage freezer, remodel in cans in the kitchen etc... Run a 1/0 copper underground feeder in pvc to a detached garage install a 150A panel, add branch circuits for lights and outlets, welder, compressor. Or the basic "my bedroom light doesn't work" and I go in and fix a bad pigtail, or "my stove won't turn on" and it needs a new breaker. I usually add up the openings and charge $30 per,homeowner buys material for new type work like the garage job. But as you know remodel and service is very different time wise. Thanks hope this isn't too long a post:)

One guy I know said to figure what material will cost and triple it, some say $100 an hour plus 25% of material but sometimes that's too low when you finish fast.
Click to expand...

As an estimator, I will tell you there are so many different approaches and scenarios that you can't list them, and the measure of success is whether and how much, money you make. Time and material as you mention above is the safest method, but it also means less chance for larger profit. The rates are basically determined by the area you are in and balance getting enough work to satisfy your needs while not getting too much work to fill you up. I know in my area, you would never get $100 per hour.
 
bullheimer said:
sounds like you are virtually doing a whole rewire job. i am confused about the copper pigtails on aluminum wire. are you saying the whole house is wired in aluminum wire? then rip it all out and bid it at around $10sf. i dont think you will go wrong with that in worst case scenario, ie old insulation. i no longer will do whole house rewires with blow in insulation left in place. that is just ridiculous. And some of that stuff, you just have to bid by the hour, even if you have a flat rate book, like putting pigtails on wires. It sounds like a giant pita to leave existing wire in and i could see where it might even take almost as long as rewiring, unless you have a two story building, in which case you want to leave the light wiring, if possible. Man, you are talking about something that has really become one of my most disliked jobs. Think of all the crawling around and breathing insulation, rat poop, plaster? dust, etc. Wear a mask. I charge $1600 for a panel change, 24 for a service change, and $350/ckt (with one box) cause you need a $50 bkr now for almost everything in the house. And the afi/gfi bkrs are out so almost always get the combos. One reason i am starting to just despise resi work are the gd lite fixtures you get now at lowes. what CRAP. they almost all have metric screws, or as some hardware guy called it, a 7/32 screw. GOOD LUCK trying to use a screw cutter on one of those to mount a lite, and throw them away if you have mount a light to a box. i just spent THREE HOURS trying to make this POS work. the screws had to be cut because they used one hole nuts (whatever you call those) to attach the fixture to the bracket and the screws were too long. once you cut them the nuts dont go on because you don't have a metric screw cutter. and then the bracket was too tall for the pancake box, after i tapped the holes out to 8s. so you couldn't tighten it up enuf to press against the sheet rock. INVARIABLY the fixture screws will hit the edge of the box in the wall and stop. unbelievable the GARBAGE that the UL is approving from china, as well as the cheapness of US products as well, like an Eaton 150A transformer we just installed that bent the frame all up just by moving and twisting it into position. it is making me wish i'd have been a plumber instead. have fun with this project of yours. hope you don't lose your shirt
Click to expand...
I had to respond to this,,,,i feel your pain. My brother in law asked me to replace a light in his kitchen, put a gfci on his 2 wire bedroom circuit so he could plug his tv in and replace a plug in the kitchen where his microwave cord shorted out at the plug and left burnt marks.......
I put the gfci behind a huge az dresser ,wires barely reached line and load thinking itll be ready for down stream 3 prong outlets..
Went to take the light down ,,,1 flat head screw and 1 10/32 philips that of coarse broke trying to strip it back out,,man i was agg, he said do you always have a hard time like this? Then the quad that had the burnt outlet was jumped from one plug to the next instead of pigtailed to each,,,and when i go the put it back together i realize the cut in box in only staying because it hasnt fell through yet,,,then my B IN Law walks in and says hey i turned the hall light on and the gfci tripped and now theres no lights..
I feel like you when it comes to resi work ....The only up side is i told him dont call me i dont warranty my work cause its just not that good,,,he bought me a klein backpack
 
Fulthrotl said:
http://www.electricalflatrate.com/

a number of people here use his service, and i've never heard a bad word about it.

honestly, if you don't do flat rate pricing, you are going to be working for free, or close to it.
some may holler bullshit on that, but that was my experience.

for flat rate pricing crash course, go here:

http://www.ellenrohr.com/

plumbers and hvac guys are mostly who she works with, but she's smart and fast.

you need to spend $10 on her weekend business plan, and then do it. you reverse engineer
your selling point based on what you have to sell, and how much time you have to sell it.

don't be shocked if to make any money beyond subsistence, your billable hour ends up being
above $150. there's a lot of wheelspin you have to eat, in order to eat.
Click to expand...


I unequivocally agree with everything said here. There are at least a few companies on here that use ES2 http://www.electricalflatrate.com/. I've been with them for about 18 months and couldn't be happier. In fact, I consider it a vital part of my business plan. If you in service a flat rate system can't be beat. A lot of people will balk at the price of ES2, but if you follow the service standard of 1000 billable hours you'll only have to raise your price by $1.19/ per hour to support them program price. Feel free to PM me with an questions
 
Hey Thanks! this looks like some good stuff, just what I was looking for.:thumbsup:


Fulthrotl said:
for flat rate pricing crash course, go here:

http://www.ellenrohr.com/

plumbers and hvac guys are mostly who she works with, but she's smart and fast.

you need to spend $10 on her weekend business plan, and then do it. you reverse engineer
your selling point based on what you have to sell, and how much time you have to sell it.

don't be shocked if to make any money beyond subsistence, your billable hour ends up being
above $150. there's a lot of wheelspin you have to eat, in order to eat.
Click to expand...
 
mmercado83 said:
Hey Thanks! this looks like some good stuff, just what I was looking for.:thumbsup:
Click to expand...

well, people want a number, not a infomercial on what we do.

what will it cost?
when can you start?
when will you be done?
will you clean up your mess afterwards?

that covers 90% of what most people really want to know about what we do.

i pretty much flat rate everything any more, and usually just pull a number out
of the air for quick and dirty stuff. i like quick and dirty stuff. i like bigger projects too...

but i most like customers who have money to pay their bill....
 
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