Bid Question

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blueheels2

Senior Member
Location
Raleigh, NC
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Electrical contractor
I. am attempting to bid a small tenant fit but I am not sure what to do about the fire alarm. I have done a few of these and run quite a few fire alarm projects so Im fine pulling wire and installing devices but don't I need to find a company to come in and program the system and test it upon completion. Do you just call up Simlplex? Lost as to how to proceed here? What do you guys do?
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I would just sub out the fire alarm work if you are not able to do the whole scope. Think about it this way: what would you say of you got a call from someone who said "I've got all the wires run, everything is pretty much ready to go I just need you to put the plugs and switches in" ?
 
There are many companies, Simplex, Notifier, Edwards, ADT, ........

If there is an existing system, stay with that company.

Roger
 
blueheels2 said:
So do you just call any fire alarm company or do some only work with certain systems?
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I actually know very little about fire alarm systems. Where I learned elec, FA was always a separate trade. I know in some places that is not the case and electricians do FA every day. Maybe I've just been lucky but I can only recall one time I did a TI where some FA needed to be added/moved. In that case the GC found someone because I had told him I didn't do FA.
 
blueheels2 said:
I. am attempting to bid a small tenant fit but I am not sure what to do about the fire alarm. I have done a few of these and run quite a few fire alarm projects so Im fine pulling wire and installing devices but don't I need to find a company to come in and program the system and test it upon completion. Do you just call up Simlplex? Lost as to how to proceed here? What do you guys do?
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Are there specs on the job?
Is the F/A system designed?
 
blueheels2 said:
So do you just call any fire alarm company or do some only work with certain systems?
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Some panels you can do yourself. Silent Knight panels come in a variety of sizes to suite most projects and are easy and flexible. ADI carries them, and if you do fire alarm and security work on a regular basis, cultivating a relationship with your local outlet is well worth your while.

The big boys (Notifier, EST, Siemens) have dedicated value added partners that rep their products. Simplex does not have distributors, every office is tied directly to Simplex. Siemens also has captive offices, so you can choose between the Siemens house or local distributor. A distributor will rep only one brand. If he is found trying to officially rep multiple brands, he'll lose them all. So, if you're going to use an outside vendor, you need to know which brand you want ahead of time. Dedicated fire protection companies may rep one major brand and also an "open source" panel, giving you additional choices.
 
electrofelon said:
Do you mean just as far as devices or do these companies employ installers?
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They are turn key outfits although we usually installed the raceways. Unlike Simplex and ADT the others are franchises bought by companies. We had a Technology division but it was licensed separately.

Roger
 
Depends, do you need a fire lic. to do the work?
If yes and don't have one = subout.
If no = call around find the cheapest with the most technical help. May not be the lowest price. They do the cert., programing, etc..
 
I always sub that out.

First thing I would recommend you do is find out who the AHJ is and if they’ll require drawings (or a specific license). If so, you’ll need a certified FA system designer to build the system out for you.

Second thing you need to consider, is that if you go ahead and install this, do you want to warranty it? A small tenant space probably isn’t that difficult of a job, but personally I just don’t like getting involved in scopes that are outside my lane.


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I think what the OP is used to is a scenario that's really common around here.

The fire/security guys are not that good at pulling wire, and even worse at running conduit and laying out equipment, plus they can't get enough help at the rate they want to pay. It would be hard for me to get a price from them for a turn key project as an EC.

What they want to do is work with the EC. They will do the layout and planning, then supply the equipment and devices for a steep markup. We will supply the wire and install everything. At the end of the project they come in, terminate, program, and test.

If that's what the OP is used to, he just needs to get together with the fire alarm company and get pricing from them.
 
Jolted said:
I think what the OP is used to is a scenario that's really common around here.

The fire/security guys are not that good at pulling wire, and even worse at running conduit and laying out equipment, plus they can't get enough help at the rate they want to pay. It would be hard for me to get a price from them for a turn key project as an EC.

What they want to do is work with the EC. They will do the layout and planning, then supply the equipment and devices for a steep markup. We will supply the wire and install everything. At the end of the project they come in, terminate, program, and test.

If that's what the OP is used to, he just needs to get together with the fire alarm company and get pricing from them.
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Jolted describes a ‘parts and smarts’ install which is not uncommon, in fact it’s all that’s offered around here. The other option is sub it out completely where the EC only F&I backboxes and raceways with pull-string
 
follybeacher said:
Jolted describes a ‘parts and smarts’ install which is not uncommon, in fact it’s all that’s offered around here. The other option is sub it out completely where the EC only F&I backboxes and raceways with pull-string
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This is a model that my previous employer used to good effect. Most small projects bundle the fire alarm under the electrical trades and do not call for a separate contractor to do the fire alarm. We would get an RFQ for a panel and so many devices, quote the material and add in time for our techs to terminate the devices and program and test the panel. Occasionally we'd be asked to do the design as well. The EC was responsible for setting all the device boxes and running the conduit and cable.
 
gadfly56 said:
This is a model that my previous employer used to good effect. Most small projects bundle the fire alarm under the electrical trades and do not call for a separate contractor to do the fire alarm. We would get an RFQ for a panel and so many devices, quote the material and add in time for our techs to terminate the devices and program and test the panel. Occasionally we'd be asked to do the design as well. The EC was responsible for setting all the device boxes and running the conduit and cable.
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For me at least, most projects small and large require turn-key bids from the electrical contractor.

For instance I have two projects going right now that include copper networking, fiber, fire alarm, intercom & sound, cameras, and sports lighting. We don’t do any of those, but it’s all part of my contract, so I have to sub out each of those specialties. The specs require licensing and certifications for each, and the sports lighting has to be an approved installer. It’s rare in my areas for the GC to hire those subs directly.


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brantmacga said:
For me at least, most projects small and large require turn-key bids from the electrical contractor.

For instance I have two projects going right now that include copper networking, fiber, fire alarm, intercom & sound, cameras, and sports lighting. We don’t do any of those, but it’s all part of my contract, so I have to sub out each of those specialties. The specs require licensing and certifications for each, and the sports lighting has to be an approved installer. It’s rare in my areas for the GC to hire those subs directly.


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Typically we'd only work directly for the owner or tenant if it was an expansion of an existing system or replacement using the existing cabling. My guys were pretty good at running cable, but you can't beat the folks who do that every day of the week. We had one replacement job where we hired an EC to run the conduit and cable but we did the terminations, programming and testing. The tail wagging the dog, in this one instance.
 
I was going to add, I have a friend that runs the controls division of a large EC here in town, and they are sometimes hired out by manufacturers to install their products on large scale projects. They’ve done a couple of sports stadiums recently, and I want to say it was Siemens that had the direct contract for the project, and they would then provide installation services under that contract.


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brantmacga said:
I was going to add, I have a friend that runs the controls division of a large EC here in town, and they are sometimes hired out by manufacturers to install their products on large scale projects. They’ve done a couple of sports stadiums recently, and I want to say it was Siemens that had the direct contract for the project, and they would then provide installation services under that contract.


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This is precisely what is happening at LGA for the Terminal B replacement. It is also a Siemens job.
 
Well here in Syracuse N.Y. And in the I.B.E.W. you better be able to do just about all if your calling yourself a JW, or you won't be too happy.
 
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