Bidding for one of the big boys or not?

[five.five-six]

All of my business comes from 5 GCs, and 3 small corporations and a few occasional referrals. I am a 1 man show and that has kept me busy enough for years. Last week I got a call from a large GC who does work for a large retail chain about replacing a few pieces of equipment and relocate a few receptacles in one of their retail locations. Apparently my rep at my wholesale house gave me high marks when they called him for a referral. The scope of work is really not all that complicated and I agreed to bid it but when I got the prints, the 81 pages of job specs was a bit overwhelming. The work is no big deal, a couple of 30 amp 3 phase circuits, a shunt trip breaker and a few receps.. but reading through the job specs there are all sorts of surprises to me. things like, I need a spotter to operate a lift or I need to trace out every circuit on every panel I work on and make a new panel schedule. And then there are verification forms for every portion of the job I complete. I haven't found anything I can't do, it just seems a little overwhelming for me and my biggest fear is that I miss something that costs me a fortune. Any advice for me?

 

[ptonsparky]

Take a vacation instead. You're probably due anyway.

 

[ActionDave]

Sounds like a GC sniffing around for some fresh meat to me too.

 

[Fulthrotl]

All of my business comes from 5 GCs, and 3 small corporations and a few occasional referrals. I am a 1 man show and that has kept me busy enough for years. Last week I got a call from a large GC who does work for a large retail chain about replacing a few pieces of equipment and relocate a few receptacles in one of their retail locations. Apparently my rep at my wholesale house gave me high marks when they called him for a referral. The scope of work is really not all that complicated and I agreed to bid it but when I got the prints, the 81 pages of job specs was a bit overwhelming. The work is no big deal, a couple of 30 amp 3 phase circuits, a shunt trip breaker and a few receps.. but reading through the job specs there are all sorts of surprises to me. things like, I need a spotter to operate a lift or I need to trace out every circuit on every panel I work on and make a new panel schedule. And then there are verification forms for every portion of the job I complete. I haven't found anything I can't do, it just seems a little overwhelming for me and my biggest fear is that I miss something that costs me a fortune. Any advice for me?

doesn't sound like your sweet spot. it wouldn't be mine, and i'm a one man band,
as well....

"And then there are verification forms for every portion of the job I complete."

you being in CA, putting in lights, where you have them permitted, there are
lighting certifications. they aren't cheap, and even if the local inspector doesn't
hold you to providing them, there is an audit mechanism at the state level that
may, or may not, require the person pulling the permit to comply at a point in
the future.

one of my GC's that i jumped thru their hoops a year ago, occasionally calls
needing lighting certifications. i won't do them for these folks. i'll do them for
the electrical contractors doing their work, and THEY can deal with these guys....
the first job i did for them, needed two portable notaries to sign all the release
papers on two separate occasions, and locations. and this GC probably does
200+ jobs a year in calif, and they only call for a certification when they get
turned down on final. the rest of the time, they are letting their subs take the
fall for future certificate requirements. they don't pull the permits, their subs do.

anything that has 80 pages of BS to shovel thru to find a small pony at the end
doesn't sound like a good ride.

 

[Fulthrotl]

ok, the winged horses crew has weighed in on this one.... ;-)

 

[five.five-six]

I think that I am just going to bid it extremely defensively, to the point where I can't get hurt and expect not to be awarded the contract.

 

[ptonsparky]

I think that I am just going to bid it extremely defensively, to the point where I can't get hurt and expect not to be awarded the contract.

I've done that before and still ended up with a project I did not want.:weeping:

 

[mgookin]

All of my business comes from 5 GCs, and 3 small corporations and a few occasional referrals. I am a 1 man show and that has kept me busy enough for years. Last week I got a call from a large GC who does work for a large retail chain about replacing a few pieces of equipment and relocate a few receptacles in one of their retail locations. Apparently my rep at my wholesale house gave me high marks when they called him for a referral. The scope of work is really not all that complicated and I agreed to bid it but when I got the prints, the 81 pages of job specs was a bit overwhelming. The work is no big deal, a couple of 30 amp 3 phase circuits, a shunt trip breaker and a few receps.. but reading through the job specs there are all sorts of surprises to me. things like, I need a spotter to operate a lift or I need to trace out every circuit on every panel I work on and make a new panel schedule. And then there are verification forms for every portion of the job I complete. I haven't found anything I can't do, it just seems a little overwhelming for me and my biggest fear is that I miss something that costs me a fortune. Any advice for me?

I understand the bureaucracy with the "large retail chain". Spotters for lifts, updating panel schedule, ringing out circuits, etc all are for the store's liabilities. Everyone's heard of the customer getting crushed to death by a forklift in a big box, etc.

There are also going to be huge insurance requirements to work there.

This sounds like something to either consider long term or decide right now it's more than you want to take on. You'll have many times more hours in preparing for and closing out the job than you will pulling wires. To do all that for a one-time gig is not equitable. And if you're a 1 man show, it means you'll need to hire someone on to be the spotter if you need a lift; not sure they would let their employees spot you for liability purposes.

 

[JFletcher]

I need to trace out every circuit on every panel I work on and make a new panel schedule.

by the time that's said and done you will have traced out every circuit in the building, and possibly a few on neighboring buildings.

things like the lift spotter are probably OSHA rules. Tho good, you can count on something like this taking twice+ as long as a standard 'get er done' method. Safety shortcuts are not going to fly there.

There's also the inevitable scheduling conflicts you'll have with other projects/work - how, as a one man outfit, are you going to be in two+ places at one time?

 

[Ponchik]

go with your deep feelings. If it does not sound OK or profitable then don'r do it.

You may end up with a project that you don't want or need, even though you bid it aggressively.

As mention earlier "take a vacation instead"

 

[five.five-six]

Sounds like a GC sniffing around for some fresh meat to me too.

I would think so too, except that the GC has been very helpful with questions I have had for them. they even went so far as to point out a few things they thought I might miss on the plans in their first email to me. I have a harder time getting info from my regular GCs, it's just that I have been working with them for years and have a good idea of their proclivities.

 

[five.five-six]

I understand the bureaucracy with the "large retail chain". Spotters for lifts, updating panel schedule, ringing out circuits, etc all are for the store's liabilities. Everyone's heard of the customer getting crushed to death by a forklift in a big box, etc.

There are also going to be huge insurance requirements to work there.

This sounds like something to either consider long term or decide right now it's more than you want to take on. You'll have many times more hours in preparing for and closing out the job than you will pulling wires. To do all that for a one-time gig is not equitable. And if you're a 1 man show, it means you'll need to hire someone on to be the spotter if you need a lift; not sure they would let their employees spot you for liability purposes.

I am takeing that all into consideration, The GC mentioned in an email that I need to make sure to include the expences for a lift spotter, GL requirements are just $1/2M. It's quite clear that the administrative work will be 2-3X the instalation work. Ultimately, I do not want to stay a 1 man show. I have done some larger projects, projects where I can't put my bags on. I really enjoy that kind of work, where my job is to keep everybody working for me busy managing cashflow, material supplies, scedules and workers skill sets.

 

[five.five-six]

by the time that's said and done you will have traced out every circuit in the building, and possibly a few on neighboring buildings.

I am adding $850 /panel and specifying that the work may involve service interruptions in the MW for each of the 3 effected panels on the plans.

things like the lift spotter are probably OSHA rules. Tho good, you can count on something like this taking twice+ as long as a standard 'get er done' method. Safety shortcuts are not going to fly there.

I apprenticed for a 1,000+ electrician EC and done extensive work for a national communications companies (phone company) "There is no job so important, no service so urgant that I can not preform my work safely and in an environmentally responsible manner" I've seen that turn 1 hr of work into 3 days.

There's also the inevitable scheduling conflicts you'll have with other projects/work - how, as a one man outfit, are you going to be in two+ places at one time?

I am a magician, it will be a challenge, but I've dealt with worse



My big problem is labor, this outfit is requiring licensed electricians. I have other 1 man show buddies that are ECs, we help each other out, but a C10 does not qualify as a licenced electrician when that EC is working for another EC, they need certified general electricians for anyone above spotter/material sorter/ sweeper. I guess I could look to a temp agency.

 

[Fulthrotl]

I am adding $850 /panel and specifying that the work may involve service interruptions in the MW for each of the 3 effected panels on the plans. I apprenticed for a 1,000+ electrician EC and done extensive work for a national communications companies (phone company) "There is no job so important, no service so urgant that I can not preform my work safely and in an environmentally responsible manner" I've seen that turn 1 hr of work into 3 days. I am a magician, it will be a challenge, but I've dealt with worse



My big problem is labor, this outfit is requiring licensed electricians. I have other 1 man show buddies that are ECs, we help each other out, but a C10 does not qualify as a licenced electrician when that EC is working for another EC, they need certified general electricians for anyone above spotter/material sorter/ sweeper. I guess I could look to a temp agency.

as we all do. that's why i kept up my JW license even after i pulled a C-10. you never know.
there's a sweet spot for 1 man bands... my gut hunch is, this isn't yours.

in all honesty, if you are going to have to map entire panels as part of the scope of this work,
$850 a can isn't enough, imho. not to sort out three rats nests. however, if you do end up doing
this stuff, here's how you can make money sorting panels as a 1 man band.

https://www.tasco-usa.com/products/circuit-mapper-system/

these things are wicked cool. the 42 circuit one is the thing to have. clip on, and walk around with
a label maker. done.

 

[mtfallsmikey]

I feel for the contractors working in/on buildings the size of the 2 I run or larger (162K s.f.). Lots of specs, high liability requirements, COI must include all parties including owner, but the ones I deal with have their own engineering, project management staff, virtually all are IBEW.