Bidding large jobs

[jdsmith]

... On the large jobs it was bid bare minimum and hope for change orders. ...

That sentence from another thread jumped out at me as I was reading it. I'm on the other end of the business - I'm the guy putting large jobs out for bid and keeping track of those jobs on behalf of the refinery I work for. Any ideas on what I can do to get people to bid a fair, higher price up front and not swamp me with change orders?

 

[Jljohnson]

1) Do not send 25% DD drawings out for quote
2) Be very active in the drawing process with the engineer and make sure the drawing reflects what you actually intend to have done.
3) Be prompt with responses to pre-bid clarifications requested by bidding contractors.

This should help. We see alot of drawings come in for bid that are far from being complete. If we are bidding competitively against other companies, we have no choice but bid only what is on the drawings so the bids are apples to apples when they are compared. If we fix the problems that are apparent on the drawings and include costs in our quote, we always look like the high bidder, even if we have explained in detail the issues that we found on the drawings and our proposed solution. Bottom line..... poor or incomplete information on the drawings that are put out for bid lead into the types of situations that you are describing.

 

[chris kennedy]

That sentence from another thread jumped out at me as I was reading it. I'm on the other end of the business - I'm the guy putting large jobs out for bid and keeping track of those jobs on behalf of the refinery I work for. Any ideas on what I can do to get people to bid a fair, higher price up front and not swamp me with change orders?

Carefully read each EC's exculsions.

 

[R Bob]

That sentence from another thread jumped out at me as I was reading it. I'm on the other end of the business - I'm the guy putting large jobs out for bid and keeping track of those jobs on behalf of the refinery I work for. Any ideas on what I can do to get people to bid a fair, higher price up front and not swamp me with change orders?

1. Realistic, functional design.
2. Competent engineering, construction management, planning and scheduling.
3. Accurate, detailed, complete prints/drafting.
4. Comprehensive job specifications that are project specific.
5. No cheezy statements hidden in the prints, specs and contract docs that, in so many words, hold the EC accountable for the errors and omissions of others.

Given the best of conditions, there will still be legit change orders on large projects.

 

[jdsmith]

5. No cheezy statements hidden in the prints, specs and contract docs that, in so many words, hold the EC accountable for the errors and omissions of others.

Are you thinking of statements like "EC responsible for code compliance" or something like that? I do clearly state what materials I will provide and indicate that the EC is responsible for all other materials required to complete the job.

Given the best of conditions, there will still be legit change orders on large projects.

Sure, I just don't want to see them for the bolts that hold the cable tray together when Chalfant included bolts and the electricians dropped them in the dirt :roll:.

 

[mdshunk]

Any ideas on what I can do to get people to bid a fair, higher price up front and not swamp me with change orders?

You can't. Some of us, maybe even me, bid based on what we know you missed or messed up.

 

[ohm]

1. Realistic, functional design.
2. Competent engineering, construction management, planning and scheduling.
3. Accurate, detailed, complete prints/drafting.
4. Comprehensive job specifications that are project specific.
5. No cheezy statements hidden in the prints, specs and contract docs that, in so many words, hold the EC accountable for the errors and omissions of others.

Given the best of conditions, there will still be legit change orders on large projects.

Great comments. I've written the specs. on many large jobs, especially instrumentation.

One item I added saved thousands of hours in troubleshooting. "There shall be !/8" of bare copper showing between a terminal strip and the insulation."
EC's would tighten down on insulation rather than wire.

Another is once you settle on a design stick with it. Everybody will try to change it, probably for the better..but, changes to the As-Built drawings will eat you alive.

 

[ceb58]

That sentence from another thread jumped out at me as I was reading it. I'm on the other end of the business - I'm the guy putting large jobs out for bid and keeping track of those jobs on behalf of the refinery I work for. Any ideas on what I can do to get people to bid a fair, higher price up front and not swamp me with change orders?

Thanks for hi-jacking my sentence

What every one has said is true. Some one as missed items or the drawings are incomplete. I imagine that for you putting out jobs may be easier because you are putting out jobs for your environment that your in everyday. Most drawings come from some remote engineer who dose many projects having no relationship to each other or job specific experience.
If you wanted to save money and headache's contract the drawing out to a veteran electrical contractor to look over the plans before you send them out. Let him use his experience to find the mistakes and the left out items. I am talking about some one who has pulled the wire, bent the pipe and set the gear. Someone with real world experience in these matters.

 

[R Bob]

Are you thinking of statements like "EC responsible for code compliance" or something like that? I do clearly state what materials I will provide and indicate that the EC is responsible for all other materials required to complete the job. :.

No. I don't think it is unreasonable for the EC to be held responsible for code compliance, nor do I think it unreasonable that the engineer be held accountable for a code compliant design.

I was referring to clauses that pretty much say that the EC is responsible for a code compliant, complete and fully functioning system even though there are errors and omissions in the design. These clauses are frequently used to deny legitimate change orders based on poor design.

Sure, I just don't want to see them for the bolts that hold the cable tray together when Chalfant included bolts and the electricians dropped them in the dirt :roll:.

No argument here.
Now I have seen thousands of $ worth of material just tossed to the side because it was wrong and ending up in a dumpster at the end of the job.

 

[nakulak]

good planning combined with good construction management make an effective solution for management. Imho, companies that tend to choose middle bidders rather than lowest bidders fair better with the change orders. I see a lot of jobs where the designer tends to put in what he really wants in either the specs or plans, but for some reason not in both. Specs that have crazy requirements may tend to drive away bidders who would normally respond, or worse, drive up the original bids (if the workmanship is faulty, then the construction management side of the team should be on top of it - it should not require mil specs to get a decent job).