Bidding Per Opening

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jeff43222

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Location
Minneapolis, Minnesota
I got a call today from a guy who has a 4-plex that is fire damaged and needs a complete rewire job except for the service. He asked me to give him a ballpark number for what I would charge per opening, and he said there were 100-120 openings. I have never bid a job that way, so I'm fairly unfamiliar with what the going rate should be.

My feeling is that bidding per opening is too difficult unless we're talking about some standard type of building. Since I mainly do remodel jobs, my experience is that there are too many variables, so I look over the job and then give a bid price. Anyway, the guy pressed me for a price, so I told him $70-$80 per opening (wild guess on my part). He said he already had someone give him a price that was substantially lower than that, and he then hung up.

Maybe I'm missing something, but my price would make the total cost in the range of $7000-$9500. That doesn't seem all that high for a complete rewire job of a 4-plex. I've done kitchens that cost over $3000.
 
I did a for plex recently, it wasn't a fire job but a rehab and I got $6500.00 so you are not far off from that but the ones I did are pretty small. I bid by the opening but it depends on the opening Receptacles are cheaper than light openings and then it depends on the type of light and then there are cable and phone everything is a little different. How does he figure he doesn't need a new service? Here it is almost required on a fire job just to pass. Unless the service is not too old and the fire was nowhere near it.
 
jeff43222 said:
Anyway, the guy pressed me for a price, so I told him $70-$80 per opening (wild guess on my part). He said he already had someone give him a price that was substantially lower than that, and he then hung up.
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I wouldn't lose any sleep over that clown....

About a week ago I ran my numbers for installing an outlet - new construction, all open, etc. It was like $65 per. Given the nature of wire prices and the nature of the job, I'd say your 70-80 number was pretty dam close if not dead-on.

This guy is looking for a low-bidder....someone desperate to work....and he will find that sucker....and that low-bidder will cut every corner known to man (and that man is the inspector man :) ). ..and quite possibly lose his shirt.

Drive by the site after work starts....see who got the job....then wait and watch the implosion :D
 
jeff43222 said:
Maybe I'm missing something, but my price would make the total cost in the range of $7000-$9500. That doesn't seem all that high for a complete rewire job of a 4-plex. I've done kitchens that cost over $3000.
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If anything, I think your offhand bid was a bit conservative.

You're not missing anything, except the chance to work for a cheapskate. :)
 
Was that including the service?
I just got a job that I was refered to the HO by another customer. I think/thought they were shopping bids.
Anyway. convert 150 amp Zinsco indoor panel to new 200 amp service, mast, outdoor panel plus, Install a switch & brace for a ceiling fan in the MBR.
For the low bid of $3500. I'm not wasting a minute getting started on this!
 
Glad to hear my numbers were good. I just came up with them on the fly. When I ran them for the job I finished today, the per opening price was very close to the T&M price I came up with.

The clown I talked to gave me a bad vibe. He did seem like a jerk. I'm certainly not going to lose sleep over missing out on this "opportunity."
 
I bid all my residential NEW construction projects by the opening. I built a spreadsheet and figured my material cost and labor hours for an average openings. I have switches, 3-ways, recessed fixtures(several types and sizes), receptacles, DW connects, A/C and furnace connects, washers, dryers, the list goes on and on. This sheet gives me my raw cost in materials and labor hours for the job when I'm finished. All that is left is adding overhead and profit. This only works well for me on new construction though. For a remodel job, I use the same sheet and add a labor multiplier that comes from my gut after walking the project. FWIW, I have done small 4-plex projects for around 10K but others have been 50-60K. It all depends on the type of condo or apt. that is being built. The 50-60K projects are very high-end.
Jim
 
The problem I see with bidding by the opening is that there's a lot of room for a job to be very different from "average." I could see it working on new construction if you know to expect a certain number of 3-ways, recessed cans, etc., but if the specs call for all sorts of expensive items that you don't know about until after you bid, you could get burned if you bid per opening based on an average.

I wouldn't feel comfortable bidding per opening unless I had an idea what those openings were.
 
I do know what they are when I bid. I am supplied with a plan or draw the devices on the plans myself. My proposal then has an itemized list of exactly how many switches, receptacles, cans, etc. are included for stated bid price. Extras are figured from that baseline.
 
jeff43222 said:
The problem I see with bidding by the opening is that there's a lot of room for a job to be very different from "average."
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So, what do you suggest then?
 
Jljohnson said:
I do know what they are when I bid. I am supplied with a plan or draw the devices on the plans myself. My proposal then has an itemized list of exactly how many switches, receptacles, cans, etc. are included for stated bid price. Extras are figured from that baseline.
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In that case, you really aren't bidding per opening, but rather per item. That's how I do bids, too.

The clown I talked to yesterday wanted a "per opening" price sight unseen. I have no idea what those openings are. Experience has taught me that if I don't have a full picture about what I'm bidding on, I tend to lose my shirt on the job.
 
jeff43222 said:
In that case, you really aren't bidding per opening, but rather per item. That's how I do bids, too.

The clown I talked to yesterday wanted a "per opening" price sight unseen. I have no idea what those openings are. Experience has taught me that if I don't have a full picture about what I'm bidding on, I tend to lose my shirt on the job.
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Run as fast as you can from this one but you already knew that. I get calls from people like this all the time. "I need a ballpark price to complete so and so job". If I give it to them as a "ballpark", next thing I know a contract shows up on my fax machine. I generally refuse to sign these unless my "ballpark" price happened to include a 2-week cruise for my wife and I in the Bahamas.. LOL Enjoy the long weekend everyone.
Jim
 
jeff43222 said:
The problem I see with bidding by the opening is that there's a lot of room for a job to be very different from "average." I could see it working on new construction if you know to expect a certain number of 3-ways, recessed cans, etc., but if the specs call for all sorts of expensive items that you don't know about until after you bid, you could get burned if you bid per opening based on an average.

I wouldn't feel comfortable bidding per opening unless I had an idea what those openings were.
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good morning jeff,,
i'm with you ,,,never felt rite going "per opening",
the way i do it is,,i go into each room,say the master bedroom,,
i write down everything i'm gonna put in there,then put $ value's next to each item,,every room gets a sheet of paper,with how much its gonna cost them,,then if they want to add something,,we both know how much its gonna be,,,
its just the way i do it,,im sure "per opening" works,just not for me.
have a great day,,
p.s.,,nobody gets every job they look at,,if you do,your "WAY" to low.
 
"Ballpark Pricing"
I just tell my customers, I have a deal with the Ballparks.
"They don't do electrical work & I don't play ball"
If they insist on a price unseen, then I'll shoot them a really low unseen price. This way I asure myself that they'll call me back when they get serious for a firm price.

Hey what happened to the spell checker? I can't locate it
 
I like to look over a job and price it out accordingly. Most people I deal with like this method (I do free estimates). Sometimes they ask me to itemize the various tasks in case they can't afford everything they want. I'm happy to do this for them. Sure, doing the free estimates takes unpaid time, but I wind up getting the majority of the jobs I bid. I see it as a cost of doing business. If I got every job, I'd know my rates are too low.

As for ballpark pricing, I make sure I give them at least a good, solid number. If they balk, then I know they are a bottom feeder that I don't want to deal with. I figure if I give them a lowball number, they might think I'm willing to work for peanuts. I'm not interested in being the cheapest EC in town.

I take pride in doing quality work, but some customers aren't primarily interested in quality. These people tend to be Realtors, landlords, and flippers. In other words, people who don't live in the places they hire me to work on. The clown that wanted the per opening price was a landlord.
 
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