bidding residential

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mannyb

Senior Member
Location
Florida
Occupation
Electrician
we got a request for quote on a 6700 sqft 2 story home. The home is 4 bdrm 4 bath, great room, study, foyer, dinning rm, kitchen, pantry, utility room, utilityroom, storage, outdoor lving area, theatre room, 2 car garage, and car port. i need some advise on bidding this project. Time ( rough in and trim time and materials take off. im basically looking for advise on time and material take off for bid. and how many guys with experience it would take.


119 recessed cans
12 soffit lights
105 receptacles
62 switches
1-floor box
2- ac condensers
2- tankless
15- ceiling lights
7- ceiling fans
etc, with all remaining requirements

i figure for wire lenght take off
100' 14/2 wire per circuit for ligts
100' 12/2 wire per circuit for recptacle circuit
basically 100' wire for each circuit to panel

no load analysis for service size, no schedule for fixtures or devices. i know we need to discuss with builder on device and lighting nnd possibly service size.
is EC responsible for providng load analysis or panel schedule for breakers if none are provided? Please any help is very welcomed
 
You also doing the telephone/coax/internet? Any LV landscaping lighting? Switched receptacles? Pool/spa? Garage door openers, doorbells, holiday lighting? Emergency electric heat in HVAC units? Wainscoating?

How many of those switches will need to be LED capable dimmers? Are your panel(s) centrally located? If not, you might be looking at near double wire length per lighting/receptacle circuits.

I'd be surprised if this home doesnt need a 400 (320A) service.

Do yourself a favor and use adjustable depth boxes in any baseboard receptacles, anything that gets wood trim, as well as kitchen counter. That $2 up front is a steal compared to $2 extension rings, long screws, and pita terminations of backset/buried boxes.

Cant help you with the price but the logistics. Dont forget tons of trips to do things in pieces later on, so if the project is far from home, definitely figure travel and mileage. Double whatever amount of trips you think it will actually take.

Will you be responsible for the temporary power and site lighting too?
 
i need some advise on bidding this project.
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1) do a takeoff
2) price material
3) labor material
4) come up with total of material+quotes+labor $+expenses+ ad oh&p

do this over and over until you can develop unit prices based on real conditions in your region and your work style

....but I'll sit and watch all of the labor guesses and prices all over the map you will get....
 
I came up with $ 43,570.00 on a 60sec takeoff in my head. On a side note, the odds of making money on new home residential is slim to none.


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cdslotz said:
1) do a takeoff
2) price material
3) labor material
4) come up with total of material+quotes+labor $+expenses+ ad oh&p

do this over and over until you can develop unit prices based on real conditions in your region and your work style

....but I'll sit and watch all of the labor guesses and prices all over the map you will get....
Click to expand...

Pay attention to this post. This is the basic framework for any bid.
 
Cletis said:
I came up with $ 43,570.00 on a 60sec takeoff in my head. On a side note, the odds of making money on new home residential is slim to none.


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Click to expand...

It all depends on where you are located and who you are working for. If your market area is flooded with competition, it will be harder to make a decent profit.
 
mannyb said:
we got a request for quote on a 6700 sqft 2 story home.


119 recessed cans
12 soffit lights
105 receptacles
62 switches
1-floor box
2- ac condensers
2- tankless
15- ceiling lights
7- ceiling fans
etc, with all remaining requirements

i figure for wire lenght take off
100' 14/2 wire per circuit for ligts
100' 12/2 wire per circuit for recptacle circuit
basically 100' wire for each circuit to panel
Click to expand...

cdslotz said:
(1) do a takeoff
Click to expand...

I agree that he needs to do a take off but it sounds like he needs to get with the builder and fill in a few blanks before he can do this.

He list things like 62 switches and not single pole, 3-way and 4-ways. I don't see any kitchen items such as that built in microwave that will require it's own circuit. Nothing about undercabinet lights. No size listed for those tankless water heaters or AC condensors. No mention of chandeliers and we can be sure that there will be and it's not good to just call them ceiling lights.

And then there is the low voltage stuff Fletcher was talking about.
 
6700 sq ft is high enough end that there could also be a 2nd floor mini-kitchen (beer/wine cooler, built in microwave, sink with corresponding 210.52 recep locations, etc.), 2nd laundry (2 more dedicated circuits), you're gonna have at least 4 exhaust fans for the bathrooms (possibly 5; 2 in the master); on those, are they cheapie light/fan combos, or ultra powerful whisper quiet 4 function with nightlight and heater that cost $400ea? Will there be driveway lights either stand alone or on brick/stone veneer columns? Crawlspace and attic ventilation/dehumidifier? Potential for a whole-house generator and ATS? Any outbuildings/detached garage with power? Well? Intercom system? Outside security cameras? RV receptacle?

The in-home theatre, how far are they going with that? Killer sound system, cable, dish, internet, HD DVD player, projector, etc.?

Sure, you could get a ballpark price on what you mentioned, its just that a home that size will invariably have so much more than what you've given. Even the light switches; what coverplates do they get? Wood and stainless are a lot more than plastic. Standard or hidden fastener plates?

The last home of that size we did had everything I mentioned in the previous post and this one. A security co did all the security wiring and sensors, and a LV crew did all the v/d/v. Rough in time on electrical alone was approx 2.5 weeks with a master, a journeyman, and a helper. Trim out was about a week and a half with two men. There were ~140 recessed lights, 10 ceiling fans (8 of which had light kits; more $$$ and assembly time), an in ground pool, 65 LV landscape lights, and 20 windows with Sill-lites for holiday lighting. 400/320A service, 2 panels, 22kW generator with ATS.
 
growler said:
I agree that he needs to do a take off but it sounds like he needs to get with the builder and fill in a few blanks before he can do this.

He list things like 62 switches and not single pole, 3-way and 4-ways. I don't see any kitchen items such as that built in microwave that will require it's own circuit. Nothing about undercabinet lights. No size listed for those tankless water heaters or AC condensors. No mention of chandeliers and we can be sure that there will be and it's not good to just call them ceiling lights.

And then there is the low voltage stuff Fletcher was talking about.
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I didnt want to post every item but you are correct. everyones post is well taken. I am trying to wrap my head arppund the process for bidding purposes, this will be my first residential bid. we are given the opportunity bid new homes and this will be an opportunity for us to get our foot in the door and learn take off, pricing,, and amount of time it will take to do the work. i normaly work off approved drawings in commercial, sometimes even those are off. The drawing for this home does show home the wiring diagram for outlets and lighting.

if you dont mind, whats a rule of thumb basically how many outlets or lighitng for each room. basically would you run living, dinning,and hall off same circuit? would you run 1,2, or 3 bedrooms off same circuit? i know there is a minimin requirements for circuits, devices, and lights but should builder make these decisions? we will be going into these homes blind but any help will do. Thannks
 
peter d said:
Location is important too. What kind of heating system, if any? Basement? Overhead service, underground?
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i assume underground. we just got bid Friday eveing. we still need to meet with builder, i also assume temp power.
 
JFletcher said:
6700 sq ft is high enough end that there could also be a 2nd floor mini-kitchen (beer/wine cooler, built in microwave, sink with corresponding 210.52 recep locations, etc.), 2nd laundry (2 more dedicated circuits), you're gonna have at least 4 exhaust fans for the bathrooms (possibly 5; 2 in the master); on those, are they cheapie light/fan combos, or ultra powerful whisper quiet 4 function with nightlight and heater that cost $400ea? Will there be driveway lights either stand alone or on brick/stone veneer columns? Crawlspace and attic ventilation/dehumidifier? Potential for a whole-house generator and ATS? Any outbuildings/detached garage with power? Well? Intercom system? Outside security cameras? RV receptacle?

The in-home theatre, how far are they going with that? Killer sound system, cable, dish, internet, HD DVD player, projector, etc.?

Sure, you could get a ballpark price on what you mentioned, its just that a home that size will invariably have so much more than what you've given. Even the light switches; what coverplates do they get? Wood and stainless are a lot more than plastic. Standard or hidden fastener plates?

The last home of that size we did had everything I mentioned in the previous post and this one. A security co did all the security wiring and sensors, and a LV crew did all the v/d/v. Rough in time on electrical alone was approx 2.5 weeks with a master, a journeyman, and a helper. Trim out was about a week and a half with two men. There were ~140 recessed lights, 10 ceiling fans (8 of which had light kits; more $$$ and assembly time), an in ground pool, 65 LV landscape lights, and 20 windows with Sill-lites for holiday lighting. 400/320A service, 2 panels, 22kW generator with ATS.
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you nailed it with your guess, we are doing everything you mentioned. basically complete home automation and security. Sounds like about same job other than generator.
 
this will be my first residential bid. we are given the opportunity bid new homes and this will be an opportunity for us to get our foot in the door and learn take off, pricing,, and amount of time it will take to do the work.
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Not trying to be discouraging but the size of, what sounds like a speck. house, and your first time bidding residential you may be in over your head on this one. This is too custom of a house to start learning on. But, if you do bid it and get it make sure every thing is in writing with a contract. Don't expect this builder to forgive and forget if you miss something. You will be paying out of your pocket for it. And don't depend on him remembering to pay you for the extras that are added on that are not on change orders. Builders have a tendency to get real short memory's when it comes to them owing you money.
Good Luck
 
Cletis said:
I came up with $ 43,570.00 on a 60sec takeoff in my head. On a side note, the odds of making money on new home residential is slim to none.


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Click to expand...
That is in the ballpark of the price I did a similar sized home for about 10 years ago. That one had a lot of the things mentioned by JFletcher, laundry on both floors, multiple baths, heated tile floors in baths, (tile guy did install the heating unit itself though), electric heating system(s), an 800 foot run to the gate - with electric gate operator and some additional lighting and outlets at the gate...

That house was supplied by it's own transformer with CT metering within the padmount - we ran 4 sets of 4/0 aluminum to 4 200 amp main panels. That was less expensive then going with a single 600 amp main and then feeding same four panels from it though. Electric heat was what pushed it to the need for 600 amps. OP says 2 tankless - those add kVA pretty fast and he probably needs 400 amps of service because of those before even considering much else of what may be there. He probably has anywhere between 20 and 40 kVA of load just in water heating.
 
i normaly work off approved drawings in commercial,
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....then do this one the same way. Take off home runs, branch wiring, appliance/AC home runs and connections, lighting, service feeders/equipment....

then write a proposal in extreme detail of inclusions and exclusions...

this is not a job to be guessing ANYTHING......just to "get your foot in the door"....you might not get it back
 
JFletcher said:
Even the light switches; what coverplates do they get? Wood and stainless are a lot more than plastic. Standard or hidden fastener plates?
Click to expand...

mannyb said:
if you dont mind, whats a rule of thumb basically how many outlets or lighitng for each room. basically would you run living, dinning,and hall off same circuit? would you run 1,2, or 3 bedrooms off same circuit? i know there is a minimin requirements for circuits, devices, and lights but should builder make these decisions?
Click to expand...


Right now you don't know if the builder is doing this as a custom home for an owner or is building it to sale. If he's doing it for an owner there may be many changes during the buiding process as the owners change their minds.

One thing that you can try is to find out if this builder has built other homes of this size and quality and ask if you can look at them and take some pictures. This will give a better idea of the finished product.
 
Bidding Residential

Bidding Residential

mannyb said:
you nailed it with your guess, we are doing everything you mentioned. basically complete home automation and security. Sounds like about same job other than generator.
Click to expand...

If you can get $26,950.00 with (1) Electrician and (2) helpers, that is the max that this job would go for. This is residential not commercial. Also, you have central air why do you need (7) fans in the house?
If you need the breakdown, let me know. Thanks, Lenny Smith
 
mannyb said:
i know there is a minimin requirements for circuits, devices, and lights but should builder make these decisions? we will be going into these homes blind but any help will do. Thannks
Click to expand...
If going in blind you should expect to come out broke. Either clear up what is unknown or stay away is my best advice. If they can't tell you what they want, this will not be a job you want to risk. They will change their mind and or try to blame things on you if you do not have reasonably clear plans/contract that tells what you will do.

Exact receptacle placement may not be absolutely necessary on plans, but you need some sort of plan or description that narrows most things down. An additional unplanned receptacle here and there shouldn't make or break whether you profit on this job.
 
smithelect said:
If you can get $26,950.00 with (1) Electrician and (2) helpers, that is the max that this job would go for. This is residential not commercial. Also, you have central air why do you need (7) fans in the house?
If you need the breakdown, let me know. Thanks, Lenny Smith
Click to expand...


Welcome to the forum.

$26,950 here would be a steal. You move here and I'll sub that work to you and make a killing. As Cletis stated we would be closer to $40,000-$50,000.

The problem is that each area has different rates so depending where you live things may cost quite a bit more
 
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