Bonded Sub Panels in Residential Services

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Doc13067

Doc13067

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Bucks County/Philadelphia, PA USA
I have installed quite a few services with main disconnects over the last 18 years. Usually because the load center was too far away for a cable to run through the house without being able to be powered off. I have always run the GEC to the main disconnect and then run a separate ground and neutral inside to the load center and removed the bonding screw. Several times now I have seen situations where they do everything I do in the disconnect but then run SER cable to the load center and run the ground and neutral to the same place and tighten the bonding screw!!! What was the point to run SER and why not just run SEU? The times that I see this the panels have inspection stickers and they are newer construction like maybe from the early 2000s. Does anybody else see this? How could installers that are doing jobs like these not know to separate the ground and neutral? Or am I the idiot and is there some reason that even though there is a main disconnect outside the panel inside should still be considered the main?
 
infinity said:
You're not the idiot, the original installers and the inspectors are the idiots.
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So should I be changing it any time I see it? Or just let it go because it has a sticker? Yesterday I saw one where the panel was square D home line with the smaller lug attached to the neutral lug up top and only one set of neutral/ground buses (originally intended as a main panel) and someone went through the effort to install 2 ground bars and then a giant lug on one of those bars, which they kept vacant, and ran every EGC to those bonded bars except 4 which they ran to the isolated neutral bars. With all of that effort they then put the SER ground in the lug attached to the neutral lug at the top. So much effort to do the right thing and then bitched at the end. Should I leave it alone?
 
Are you being hired to inspect and correct all existing violations? I would mention it to the owner but they'll probably say it was inspected and passed so leave it be.
 
Doc13067 said:
I have installed quite a few services with main disconnects over the last 18 years. Usually because the load center was too far away for a cable to run through the house without being able to be powered off. I have always run the GEC to the main disconnect and then run a separate ground and neutral inside to the load center and removed the bonding screw. Several times now I have seen situations where they do everything I do in the disconnect but then run SER cable to the load center and run the ground and neutral to the same place and tighten the bonding screw!!! What was the point to run SER and why not just run SEU? The times that I see this the panels have inspection stickers and they are newer construction like maybe from the early 2000s. Does anybody else see this? How could installers that are doing jobs like these not know to separate the ground and neutral? Or am I the idiot and is there some reason that even though there is a main disconnect outside the panel inside should still be considered the main?
Click to expand...
Sounds like you're in Indiana. ;)
 
infinity said:
Are you being hired to inspect and correct all existing violations? I would mention it to the owner but they'll probably say it was inspected and passed so leave it be.
Click to expand...
No not necessarily I just see it all the time and it kills me. I usually do mention it but I’m just wondering how hard to push when I see it. Personally my mindset is everything should be 100% and if I see a single problem it should be corrected but maybe that’s not practical so I’m just trying to get everybody else’s take
 
In decades of inspecting I can't count the number of panel bond screws I have added or removed :)
The concept is seemingly beyond some experienced electricians comprehension.
 
If the only fix needed is removing the bonding screw, and I was already working in the panel, I'd just remove the screw. If there's more to it, it depends. I would definitely tell a homeowner if it needed more work that wasn't in my scope.
 
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