Bonding Aluminum Patio Covers to

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ScottNOFX

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Mike,
I have been watching your video on Stray Voltage for a better understanding of this issue.

Our company installs Alumawood patio covers, many of those covers have post installed within 5 feet of the pool waters edge.
When this occurs we always install a 6 gauge solid copper wire from the Alumawood structure to the pool motor bonding lug.

I have a project that has 4 pumps for the pool and spa, none of these seem to be bonded together, (only one has a external lug) but no bonding wire.

Any suggestions?


On a side note:
In the video, you mention that bonding a sliding glass door or window should not be required as they are isolated?
Not sure that I understand this.
Wouldn't the slider be grounded to the earth via the concrete slab?
Wouldn't it be possible for the window to be grounded to the earth via the lath in exterior plaster?


Thank you for all the great information and resources on your site!

Scott
SAE Builders
 
Welcome to the forum..

Mike does not often post here but we can give it a do. I would take the #8 from the awning and attach it to the lug on the motor. That is the best you can go. If it gets energized hopefully it will trip the circuit. This install seems like it was done with no equipotential bonding at all. If there is a #8 somewhere by the pumps then I would connect to it. and the pump-- but not really your job

In terms of windows and doors-- The video by Mike where you saw this may be an old video. The 2014 NEC clearly states in section 680.26(F) that metal windows and frames are included in this install.

(7) Fixed Metal Parts. All fixed metal parts shall be bonded
including, but not limited to, metal-sheathed cables and raceways,
metal piping, metal awnings, metal fences, and metal
door and window frames.
Click to expand...
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Welcome to the forum..

Mike does not often post here but we can give it a do. I would take the #8 from the awning and attach it to the lug on the motor. That is the best you can go. If it gets energized hopefully it will trip the circuit. This install seems like it was done with no equipotential bonding at all. If there is a #8 somewhere by the pumps then I would connect to it. and the pump-- but not really your job

In terms of windows and doors-- The video by Mike where you saw this may be an old video. The 2014 NEC clearly states in section 680.26(F) that metal windows and frames are included in this install.
Click to expand...
Don't mean to step on your toes Dennis, but the awning is not likely to become energized - unless it has electrical equipment installed on it. The idea of equipotential bonding is often misunderstood, the number one purpose here is not to clear ground faults, though it may help facilitate that, it is to bring all metal objects in proximity to users of the pool to same potential, and it includes objects that do not have wiring associated with them but possibly are at ground potential. True ground potential can be at a different level then the EGC - we need to bring all those objects to same potential so pool users are not subject to even as little as 1-3 volt potential that is otherwise acceptable between objects in other areas.
 
ScottNOFX said:
Mike,
I have been watching your video on Stray Voltage for a better understanding of this issue.

Our company installs Alumawood patio covers, many of those covers have post installed within 5 feet of the pool waters edge.
When this occurs we always install a 6 gauge solid copper wire from the Alumawood structure to the pool motor bonding lug.

I have a project that has 4 pumps for the pool and spa, none of these seem to be bonded together, (only one has a external lug) but no bonding wire.

Any suggestions?


On a side note:
In the video, you mention that bonding a sliding glass door or window should not be required as they are isolated?
Not sure that I understand this.
Wouldn't the slider be grounded to the earth via the concrete slab?
Wouldn't it be possible for the window to be grounded to the earth via the lath in exterior plaster?


Thank you for all the great information and resources on your site!

Scott
SAE Builders
Click to expand...
Your project with no bonding at said pumps - tell owners they need a qualified electrician to check this out and likely to bond to your equipment.
 
kwired said:
Your project with no bonding at said pumps - tell owners they need a qualified electrician to check this out and likely to bond to your equipment.
Click to expand...

I will do that.
In your opinion, should I bond the proposed aluminum cover to the pool equipment?
 
ScottNOFX said:
I will do that.
In your opinion, should I bond the proposed aluminum cover to the pool equipment?
Click to expand...

IMO and I stress opinion, if there is no bonding grid any connection you make might introduce a hazard. I would document the problem with the homeowner and suggest he have it investigated.
 
kwired said:
Don't mean to step on your toes Dennis, but the awning is not likely to become energized - unless it has electrical equipment installed on it.
Click to expand...

We are in article 680, likely to become energized is not a factor.

I believe all metal objects within 5' have to be bonded.
 
kwired said:
Don't mean to step on your toes Dennis, but the awning is not likely to become energized -.
Click to expand...

Did you read the article I posted. The awning whether likely to be energized or not shall be bonded per NEC

(7) Fixed Metal Parts. All fixed metal parts shall be bonded
including, but not limited to, metal-sheathed cables and raceways,
metal piping, metal awnings, metal fences, and metal
door and window frames.
Click to expand...
 
augie47 said:
IMO and I stress opinion, if there is no bonding grid any connection you make might introduce a hazard. I would document the problem with the homeowner and suggest he have it investigated.
Click to expand...


If you connect to the pool pump lug then you are connected to the equipment grounding conductor.
 
iwire said:
We are in article 680, likely to become energized is not a factor.

I believe all metal objects within 5' have to be bonded.
Click to expand...

Likely to become energized is not a factor, but dennis did mention likely to be energized - that is why I respnded.:huh:

Likely to become energized requires bonding to the EGC from whatever is likely to energize it, and comes from elsewhere in art 250, plus you still need the EP bonding if in a 680 application.

I feel it doesn't hurt to put extra emphasis on those seemingly little details as they are often misunderstood. A "hole" in the equipotential bonding can hurt someone.
 
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