bonding gas pipe in house

[rcarroll]

Ron, do you guys allow the bonding to be done by others even if they have to enter the panel? Around here they can bond but they cannot go into the panel.

The electricians install the bonding conductor 99% of the time.
I would not know if any other trade installed it. It's always installed at time of rough inspection after a few years of education & finally convincing the EC to charge a healthy price for it.

 

[LarryFine]

I have done several, and have only used #6 cu. The gas line is not an electrode.

 

[kwired]

The International Fuel Gas Code requires the "Not smaller than #6 cu" to be connected toe the electrical service grounding electrode system.
Not an EC's problem.

IMO this should be one of the other systems that the intersystem bonding termination required by 250.94 is all about. If gas code would align itself to NEC and allow connection to either the GES or the ISBT then gas piping installers won't have to access an electrical enclosure to make their connection.

You know how many ISBT's I have installed that have nothing landed on them?

You know how many I have installed and come back to find the satellite TV installer placed one of those adjustable bonding clamps on the panel - when the ISBT was right there and if it had arms could have slapped them in the face while they were installing their clamp?

 

[romex jockey]

IMO this should be one of the other systems that the intersystem bonding termination required by 250.94 is all about. If gas code would align itself to NEC and allow connection to either the GES or the ISBT then gas piping installers won't have to access an electrical enclosure to make their connection.

You know how many ISBT's I have installed that have nothing landed on them?

You know how many I have installed and come back to find the satellite TV installer placed one of those adjustable bonding clamps on the panel - when the ISBT was right there and if it had arms could have slapped them in the face while they were installing their clamp?

The ISBT would make sense

as to NEC alignment, i'm sure many here remember bonding gas was once a no-no, then it went to w/in 6 feet (flashover rationale?) , and now we get calls from customers claiming the gas guys won't turn on their {whatever gas apliance} w/o us bonding it all

somewhere some substaintiation must exist ?

~RJ~

 

[GoldDigger]

Your pictures were of ductwork, not gas piping. I should have clarified that the NEC does not require ductwork to be bonded.

....unless you consider the ductwork as "likely to become energized" for some reason.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I have done several, and have only used #6 cu. The gas line is not an electrode.

That has nothing to do with it however it does seem that the one manufacturer that I knew required you to use 250.66 does not make the yellow stuff anymore.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I have read twice now that the #6 bond is limited to 75'. Not sure what you have to do to calculate what size to use if you are 150' away I assume you need to calculate the resistance of #6 at 75' and then provide the same or less resistance at other distances.

 

[rcarroll]

IMO this should be one of the other systems that the intersystem bonding termination required by 250.94 is all about.

I agree. :thumbsup:

 

[Adamjamma]

Ron, do you guys allow the bonding to be done by others even if they have to enter the panel? Around here they can bond but they cannot go into the panel.

Would they need to go into the panel to bond? I mean, isn’t that what the bonding spot at the main entrance is for?

 

[kwired]

Would they need to go into the panel to bond? I mean, isn’t that what the bonding spot at the main entrance is for?

I think you are trying to describe what I mentioned in post 23. This has been in NEC for a few years now, maybe first appeared in 2005 or 2008, yet when I come back to places noting is landed on them, and system bonding by others is as hacked as it has been ever since I started in this trade. Seen satellite TV installers place a bonding clamp (adjustable thing that fits maybe 12 to 20 inch metal enclosures) on circuit breaker panel when there was a terminal provided specifically for people like them right below that panel. I certainly would call gas piping another system and most CSST piping has bonding rules so it would seem to make sense it is for them also. To get gas codes and or installation instructions to align themselves with the NEC and realize this terminal is there so they don't need their installers to enter the panel is a different game.

 

[rcarroll]

And then, the 2017 NEC apparently won't allow the CSST guys to attach to the Intersystem bond by adding the word "Communication" to the title in 250.94.

 

[kwired]

And then, the 2017 NEC apparently won't allow the CSST guys to attach to the Intersystem bond by adding the word "Communication" to the title in 250.94.

Hadn't noticed that. Stupid IMO.

Also think it is stupid that it is required basically for installations. Though I haven't been called out for it yet, I do a lot of farm installations that don't ever have other systems to bond to such a thing. Center pivot irrigation is starting to see web based control apps, but uses wireless communications for web access.

 

[tortuga]

I agree, the guy installing the CSST whether it's a plumber or some other trade they should be installing the bonding connection, this is not part of the NEC.

The scope of work requiring an electrical license is certainly not limited to the scope of the NEC where I live.
It would be a steep fine for a pipe fitter or plumber to run a bonding wire in Oregon. Any state I am familiar with actually (CA, OR, WA, AK) all define whats considered designing planning and making an "electrical installation" similarly in law.

“Electrical installations” means the construction or installation of electrical wiring and the permanent attachment or installation of electrical products in or on any structure that is not itself an electrical product. “Electrical installation” also means the maintenance or repair of installed electrical wiring and permanently attached electrical products.

-- Oregon definition https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/479.530

(1) Offering to perform, submitting a bid for, advertising, installing or maintaining cables, conductors or equipment:
(a) That convey or utilize electrical current without having a valid electrical contractor's license; or
(b) Used for information generation, processing, or transporting of signals optically or electronically in telecommunications systems without having a valid telecommunications contractor's license.

-- Washington
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=296-46B-915

any person engaged in the business of, or purporting to be engaged in the business of,
installing or repairing, or contracting to install or repair, electrical wiring, conduits,
devices, fixtures, equipment, or other electrical materials for transmitting, using or
consuming electrical energy.

-- Alaska definition
I would interpret running a bonding wire and making a bonding connection as making an electrical installation.
Now the "mechanical contractor" might and often do employ an electrician and problem solved.