bonding/grounding
- Thread starter shaknbake
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: bonding/grounding
This issue is one of the major problems with the NEC. Most of what we and the NEC calls "grounding" is really "bonding". A task force has been appointed to study this issue for the 2008 code after myself and others proposed changing the term "equipment grounding conductor" to "equipment bonding conductor". This proposed change was rejected by CMP 5 on a very narrow margin, just one volt less that the required 2/3s majority. The proposals stirred a lot of interest in the subject and resulted in the appointment of a task force.
Don
This issue is one of the major problems with the NEC. Most of what we and the NEC calls "grounding" is really "bonding". A task force has been appointed to study this issue for the 2008 code after myself and others proposed changing the term "equipment grounding conductor" to "equipment bonding conductor". This proposed change was rejected by CMP 5 on a very narrow margin, just one volt less that the required 2/3s majority. The proposals stirred a lot of interest in the subject and resulted in the appointment of a task force.
Don
Re: bonding/grounding
Asside from what has already been said, here is my simplistic view.
If it is a GEC or the main electrode, it is grounding. Anything else is bonding. OK, you can flame me now
Personnaly, I like it to be confusing. Keeps the communist away.
Asside from what has already been said, here is my simplistic view.
If it is a GEC or the main electrode, it is grounding. Anything else is bonding. OK, you can flame me now
Personnaly, I like it to be confusing. Keeps the communist away.
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: bonding/grounding
(1) If you catch a punt in your own end zone, and drop to one knee, you are ?safe.? They call that a ?touchback.?
(2) But if you are forced back into your own end zone and are ?touched,? they call that a ?safety!?
Then perhaps we should switch the two terms, and call it a ?ground? only if it does not touch the ground. Let?s take our lead from the rules of football:
(1) If you catch a punt in your own end zone, and drop to one knee, you are ?safe.? They call that a ?touchback.?
(2) But if you are forced back into your own end zone and are ?touched,? they call that a ?safety!?
cripple
Senior Member
- Location
- Santa Fe, New Mexico
Re: bonding/grounding
The NEC has not defined the term Grounding. Grounding Conductor and Equipment Grounding Conductor are defined in Article 100.
It would appear to me that grounding should be defined as the action taken to ensure, permanent joining of the non?current-carrying metal parts of the electrical system, equipment, raceways, and other enclosures, which is the definition of Bonding, with some changes and could read as following:
Grounding. The permanent joining of metallic n on?current-carrying metal parts of equipment, raceways, and other enclosures to the system grounded conductor, the grounding electrode conductor, or both, at the service equipment or at the source of a separately derived system,[/ I] to form an electrically conductive path that ensures electrical continuity and the capacity to conduct safely any current likely to be imposed.
The NEC has not defined the term Grounding. Grounding Conductor and Equipment Grounding Conductor are defined in Article 100.
It would appear to me that grounding should be defined as the action taken to ensure, permanent joining of the non?current-carrying metal parts of the electrical system, equipment, raceways, and other enclosures, which is the definition of Bonding, with some changes and could read as following:
Grounding. The permanent joining of metallic n on?current-carrying metal parts of equipment, raceways, and other enclosures to the system grounded conductor, the grounding electrode conductor, or both, at the service equipment or at the source of a separately derived system,[/ I] to form an electrically conductive path that ensures electrical continuity and the capacity to conduct safely any current likely to be imposed.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: bonding/grounding
Equipment Grounding Conductor
Bonding Conductor
Grounding Electrode Conductor
All three of these can be each other.
And to figure out what each one is you must follow the current path that might be imposed on each conductor.
this means if lighting were to strike a appliance then the EGC to that appliance would be a grounding conductor to earth through the GEC to the GE.
If there was a short in that same appliance then this same EGC would serve as a bonding conductor.
we have to remember that these conductors serve multiple roles and can be all three in one. This is true for the service neutral as it serves all three. a water pipe GEC also serves all three. so if we get into changing the name to "equipment bonding conductor, then will the lightning path thinking get lost in the shuffle?
I just think that the definition in artical 100 of these conductors could be alittle more defined to reflect this as a way to allow us to better understand what each purpose each serves, and that the same conductor can serve each purpose at the same time.
The confusion is not understanding which purpose/'s the wire is for at the time of installation. And to understand this one only has to know how to follow the current path of each kind of current that could be placed upon the conductor, and know where that current (fault current) is trying to return to Ie: transformer (source), Earth. (lightning strike)
[ October 14, 2004, 07:13 PM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]
Equipment Grounding Conductor
Bonding Conductor
Grounding Electrode Conductor
All three of these can be each other.
And to figure out what each one is you must follow the current path that might be imposed on each conductor.
this means if lighting were to strike a appliance then the EGC to that appliance would be a grounding conductor to earth through the GEC to the GE.
If there was a short in that same appliance then this same EGC would serve as a bonding conductor.
we have to remember that these conductors serve multiple roles and can be all three in one. This is true for the service neutral as it serves all three. a water pipe GEC also serves all three. so if we get into changing the name to "equipment bonding conductor, then will the lightning path thinking get lost in the shuffle?
I just think that the definition in artical 100 of these conductors could be alittle more defined to reflect this as a way to allow us to better understand what each purpose each serves, and that the same conductor can serve each purpose at the same time.
The confusion is not understanding which purpose/'s the wire is for at the time of installation. And to understand this one only has to know how to follow the current path of each kind of current that could be placed upon the conductor, and know where that current (fault current) is trying to return to Ie: transformer (source), Earth. (lightning strike)
[ October 14, 2004, 07:13 PM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: bonding/grounding
When things get confusing, I always think it is best to take everything back to the basics.
Nicely put.
When things get confusing, I always think it is best to take everything back to the basics.hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: bonding/grounding
Thank's Charlie B. Coming from you, make's my head swell. Now I'll have to go out and buy a bigger hat.
I agree with you If we keep the basic's in our thinking when we lay out circuits, we can save ourselves allot of trouble down the road.
It was once said that a job is only as hard as you make it, so then came the phrase KISS which = "Keep It Simple Stupid"
Thank's Charlie B. Coming from you, make's my head swell. Now I'll have to go out and buy a bigger hat.
I agree with you If we keep the basic's in our thinking when we lay out circuits, we can save ourselves allot of trouble down the road.
It was once said that a job is only as hard as you make it, so then came the phrase KISS which = "Keep It Simple Stupid"
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