Bonding MC Feeders

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cdcengineer

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I did some research on the forum last night and found some decent info, but I wanted to ask the group. Is a #2/0 AL MC Feeder required to be installed with a bonding bushing inside the panel? This is a 208Y/120V, 3-phase system.

I know 250.92 deals with this topic when it comes to services, 250.96 talks about bonding other enclosures and 250.97 addresses bonding for over 250V to ground, but if I'm feeding a panel (not a service) with or without concentric KO's, I would think that because the MC has an EGC there is no need for a bonding bushing. 250.96 says that it's required if the cable sheath is "to serve" as equipment grounding - which it is not.

300.10 which leads me to 250.4(A) & (B) has me wondering if bonding might be required. Take it easy on me as means and methods is not what I typically deal with as a desk jockey.

I just ordered the Grdg versus Bonding book to see if I can;'t gain a better understanding of the topic.

Any feedback is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

DC
 
Thanks.. Iwire is that the Outlaw Josey Wales on your avatar? Dave the cat doesn't look excited about the flag...

I agree that it shouldn't be required. I guess the inspector was arguing with one of our contractors that they are required. I got the call and said I disagreed. The impossible thing will be for them to try and argue it with the AHJ.
 
Thanks.. Iwire is that the Outlaw Josey Wales on your avatar?
I hope you're old enough to have seen The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly or I am going to feel really old.
Dave the cat doesn't look excited about the flag...
That is Queen Sara. All of us that live in the house serve at her pleasure. She rarely grants permission to be photographed.
I agree that it shouldn't be required. I guess the inspector was arguing with one of our contractors that they are required. I got the call and said I disagreed. The impossible thing will be for them to try and argue it with the AHJ.
It's not that hard. If you pull out your own code book you are already ahead of ninety percent of the guys he deals with.
 
I have seen the good, the bad and the ugly. You're not old. I just thought it was Josey. I love (and often quote) that movie.
 
Thanks.. Iwire is that the Outlaw Josey Wales on your avatar? Dave the cat doesn't look excited about the flag...

I agree that it shouldn't be required. I guess the inspector was arguing with one of our contractors that they are required. I got the call and said I disagreed. The impossible thing will be for them to try and argue it with the AHJ.
This should not be a problem convincing the AHJ. You also have an option of sending them to the Manufacturer of the Type MC Cable and they will also gladly explain as well. Sometimes the AHJ's like to see letters from the manufacturers, it is like it eases their mind or something. However, the NEC says what it says so they should take that at face value...hopefully.
 
Update - I had a conference call with the local inspector this AM and he pointed to 250.96 stating that cable armor and other metal non-current carrying parts shall be bonded. I pointed out that per NEC (2011 which this project is permitted under) this refers to when said armor is to serve as the equipment grounding conductor. With AC cable, the armor can be used as the EGC, therefore a bond wire might be necessary, however MC has integral EGC and therefore bonding is not required nor is it necessary.

He then pointed to 250.92 to which I responded that this as a feeder, not part of the service. He feels that the armor could accidentally be involved with a short and subjected to a fault current.

We are both going to do more reading and reconvene. I don't know if I've ever come up on the winning side with discussions on code with this AHJ.

Per APC's webiste, they state that the armor is not an equipment ground, but supplements the internal grounding conductor equaling one grounding path...
 
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MC cable, being metallic jacketed, should have that metal bonded since that jacket could easily be energized if damaged (250.4(A)(4)). That being said, I would think the MC cable clamp would provide this bonding as long as you use a locknut with biting teeth or scraped paint around the knockout hole.

I wouldn't expect a bonding bushing or double lock nuts to be required unless the voltage was over 250 to ground.
 
Update - I had a conference call with the local inspector this AM and he pointed to 250.96 stating that cable armor and other metal non-current carrying parts shall be bonded. I pointed out that per NEC... this refers to when said armor is to serve as the equipment grounding conductor. ...MC has integral EGC and therefore bonding is not required nor is it necessary.
I agree with your assessment except for highlighted. Bonding the armor is required and necessary. What is in question here by EI is the bonding means. More in a bit...

He then pointed to 250.92 to which I responded that this as a feeder, not part of the service. He feels that the armor could accidentally be involved with a short and subjected to a fault current.
You are correct regarding 250.92. He is correct on the latter statement.

While neither 250.92 or 250.96 apply, 250.4 does, though fairly abstract on specifics. At this point, I'll cite 110.2 Approval. In that regard, we go to 250.8 and interpret that you are endeavoring to satisfy 250.4 per 250.8(7). While Article 330 does not specifically require MC to be listed, 330.40 does require fittings (connectors) to "be listed and identified for such use". Here's where you go to the either or both manufacturer's or listing agency's documentation (website) and verify the connectors and "boxes" are listed and identified for grounding.

I believe that's as far as you can take your end of the discussion... :hug:
 
Thanks Smart$ and all. I appreciate your thoughts and feedback.

Smart$, are you suggesting that a bonding bushing would not be required if the connector is listed for use?

I would say that even though a particular connector is listed (and identified for use), that the armor on MC is not considered part of the EGC unless you're using a product like MCap or is it HCF MC (I think that these might be one of or to of the products which has armor suitable for use as EGC). I have actually never seen this type of MC used, I believe the interlocking armor is somehow connected more so than standard armor. I remember AC cable having a more significant armor that would meet the intent of 250.118(10)(b). What is NEC 250.118(10)(c) referring to?

And what do mfg's mean hen they state (per their spec's) that the armor is not an equipment ground, but supplements the internal grounding conductor equaling one grounding path? Is this all MC products?

I thought I was clear on this when I started, but I seem to have gotten more tangled as things move along? I questioned things on behalf of the owner in trying to save 500 or 600 bonding bushings for larger MC feeders. It seemed the material and labor savings was worth while. No good deed goes unpunished.

Thanks
 
Thanks Smart$ and all. I appreciate your thoughts and feedback.

Smart$, are you suggesting that a bonding bushing would not be required if the connector is listed for use?

I would say that even though a particular connector is listed (and identified for use), that the armor on MC is not considered part of the EGC unless you're using a product like MCap or is it HCF MC (I think that these might be one of or to of the products which has armor suitable for use as EGC). I have actually never seen this type of MC used, I believe the interlocking armor is somehow connected more so than standard armor. I remember AC cable having a more significant armor that would meet the intent of 250.118(10)(b). What is NEC 250.118(10)(c) referring to?

And what do mfg's mean hen they state (per their spec's) that the armor is not an equipment ground, but supplements the internal grounding conductor equaling one grounding path? Is this all MC products?

I thought I was clear on this when I started, but I seem to have gotten more tangled as things move along? I questioned things on behalf of the owner in trying to save 500 or 600 bonding bushings for larger MC feeders. It seemed the material and labor savings was worth while. No good deed goes unpunished.

Thanks
There is bonding like what we do at the service, bond the grounded/neutral to the the earth and all equipment grounds and make sure the service raceways have an extra level of connectedness by using a bond bushing or a bonding lock nut....

But then there is bonding meaning, make sure metal parts are continuous and bonding meaning making sure there is an effective equipment ground fault path which is where Smart gets his reference-

250.4 General Requirements for Grounding
and Bonding

(3) Bonding of Electrical Equipment. Normally non?
current-carrying conductive materials enclosing electrical
conductors or equipment, or forming part of such equip-
ment, shall be connected together and to the electrical sup-
ply source in a manner that establishes an effective
ground-fault current path.

(4) Bonding of Electrically Conductive Materials and
Other Equipment. Normally non?current-carrying electri-
cally conductive materials that are likely to become ener-
gized shall be connected together and to the electrical supply
source in a manner that establishes an effective ground-fault
current path.

(5) Effective Ground-Fault Current Path. Electrical
equipment and wiring and other electrically conductive ma-
terial likely to become energized shall be installed in a man-
ner that creates a low-impedance circuit facilitating the
operation of the overcurrent device or ground detector for
high-impedance grounded systems. It shall be capable of
safely carrying the maximum ground-fault current likely to
be imposed on it from any point on the wiring system where
a ground fault may occur to the electrical supply source. The
earth shall not be considered as an effective ground-fault
current path.

The armour on regular MC is bonded by the connector and that is all that is required since it is only there to protect the conductors. There is a separate EGC to make sure there is an effective fault clearing path. That is the way MC works.

Sure if there is a fault the armour is going to be part of the fault path but so is the building steel, metal studs, ceiling joists, HVAC ducts, sprinkler pipes, ceiling grids, trouffer lights, drywall screws, metal door frames....none of which are part of the effective fault clearing path. That is what the EGC inside the armour is for.

If one were to rely on the spiral armour to clear a fault trouble would follow. Those spirals act like a coil or a winding and make a high impedance fault path instead of a low one. That was the problem with the old BX cable. It was the armour that started fires when there was a fault so a shorting strip was added.

MCAP mimics BX with the fat chunk of uninsulated aluminium ran with the circuit conductors. Hospital grade MC has the shorting strip and an insulated EGC so there is a redundant EGC/low impedance path.

If the contractor was using FMC instead of MC he would need an EGC pulled in but he would not need anything more than a listed fitting. Same thing with MC.

It is a good fight and one worth fighting.
 
...Smart$, are you suggesting that a bonding bushing would not be required if the connector is listed for use? ...
Yes, if listed for grounding. Not all metal connectors are listed as such.

But if they are not, I don't see how adding a bonding bushing would increase the connectors bonding effectiveness to the armor. :huh:

Thanks for chiming in Dave.
I thank Dave, too. His explanation was quite satisfactory.
 
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