bonding meter side of service

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JOHNEO99

JOHNEO99

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Northern Illinois
Hello

I am doing a job on a navy base in chicagoland where we mostly/always use pipe.

Well the government wants to cut costs and we are now using SE cable from the meter socket to the panel.

My question is do I have to bond the panel to the meter socket like the pipe with bonding bushings would normally do. I have not seen this cable yet so I dont know how many conductors are in it.

I believe I do according to 250.102c & 250.64e

Is this correct?
 
If you use SE you do not have anything to bond.

The meter is already bonded to neutral and you will bond the service disconnecting means.

The bonding bushings you normally install are to bond the raceways, not the meter socket or panel.
 
The bonding bushings you normally install are to bond the raceways, not the meter socket or panel.
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Bob has pointed out a common misconception of metallic service raceways. They only require bonding on one end. This is because, as Bob stated, you're only bonding the raceway. You're not looking to have a complete path from the panel to the meter socket since the neutral is already bonded in both.
 
continuous gec

continuous gec

infinity said:
Bob has pointed out a common misconception of metallic service raceways. They only require bonding on one end. This is because, as Bob stated, you're only bonding the raceway. You're not looking to have a complete path from the panel to the meter socket since the neutral is already bonded in both.
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So the GECs on the meter socket and the panel dont need to be continuous? Or connected?
 
There would/should only be one GEC.

Roger
 
Well around here with the pipe there are to bonding bushings....one at panel one at meter socket.

The street side jumpers water meter, then comes back to panel, thru the bushing into the neutral bus.

The ground rod outside goes from rod into can, thru bushing and into lug next to neutral.

Does the raceway become the GEC between the panel and socket to make it continuous?
 
John, what you are describing puts three paths in parallel with each other; the metallic conduit between the meter and the panel, the Neutral conductor, and the GEC which is now a loop.

Even though this is legal, it is unnecessary. There should be "one GEC" sized appropriately to the service entrance conductors and to one of the Grounding Electrodes, all the other Grounding Electrodes that are present or available (depends on the code cycle you are under) can be jumpered together.

In the Graphic below notice the "one" GEC from the panel to the water pipe.

1100202225_2.jpg


Roger
 
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roger said:
John, what you are describing puts three paths in parallel with each other; the metallic conduit between the meter and the panel, the Neutral conductor, and the GEC which is now a loop.

Even though this is legal, it is unnecessary. There should be "one GEC" sized appropriately to the service entrance conductors and to one of the Grounding Electrodes, all the other Grounding Electrodes that are present or available (depends on the code cycle you are under) can be jumpered together.

In the Graphic below notice the "one" GEC from the panel to the water pipe.

1100202225_2.jpg


Roger
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The actual GEC wire stops at meter socket bushing.
 
JOHNEO99 said:
The actual GEC wire stops at meter socket bushing.
Click to expand...

Are you saying the GEC terminates on a conduit bushing?

Roger
 
If you look at Rogers graphic there is only one GEC. It goes from the grounded conductor bus in the disconnect or panelboard to the water pipe. That connection is required to be continuous. Looping it through a bonding bushing on the service raceway is not required although it is permitted. The service raceway only needs to be bonded at one end. This can be accomplished by using a bonding bushing, bonding locknut or bonding wedge. The last two items would require clean KO's not concentric, eccentric or tangential knock outs.
 
roger said:
Are you saying the GEC terminates on a conduit bushing?

Roger
Click to expand...

There are two electrodes. (Inside&Outside)

The wire from water pipe goes thru neutral bus and to terminates at bushing on panel.

The wire from ground rod outside goes thru neutral lug and terminates at bushing on socket.


Only the neutral and conduit are parallel.


John
 
John, why not use PVC between the meter can and the panel? This would eliminate the parallel path between the metallic conduit and neutral.

Roger
 
JOHNEO99 said:
There are two electrodes. (Inside&Outside)

The wire from water pipe goes thru neutral bus and to terminates at bushing on panel.

The wire from ground rod outside goes thru neutral lug and terminates at bushing on socket.


Only the neutral and conduit are parallel.


John
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Your installation is code compliant but a waste of a bonding bushing and some wire. You could eliminate the bonding bushing within the meter enclosure and the bonding jumper from it the neutral bus.
 
roger said:
John, why not use PVC between the meter can and the panel? This would eliminate the parallel path between the metallic conduit and neutral.

Roger
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In chicagoland most ahjs demand pipe.

Dont want another Great Chicago Fire
 
I have been probing for insight on this issue because it has arisen so many times on my job.

Bob you say the typical way we do things arround here is correct but I disagree. The GEC should not go into the meter can as it would not be accesible due to utility lockout.

?
 
Our utility also requires the use of bonding bushings and bonding jumpers on both ends of the conduit. They require that the GEC from the ground rods (they require 2 no matter what other electrodes are used) be landed in the meter can and the other GEC(s) be landed in the service disconnect.
Don
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
Our utility also requires the use of bonding bushings and bonding jumpers on both ends of the conduit. They require that the GEC from the ground rods (they require 2 no matter what other electrodes are used) be landed in the meter can and the other GEC(s) be landed in the service disconnect.
Don
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Where would that be?
 
John, if you make the GEC connection in the Main disconnect in a hospital in a locked down electrical, room is it accessible"

Is it accessible in a locked house?

Is it accessible in a prison?

A lock or seal does not render the connection inaccessible.

Accessible (as applied to wiring methods). Capable of being removed or exposed without damaging the building structure or finish or not permanently closed in by the structure or finish of the building.
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Notice a lock is not mentioned in the definition.

I would also ask why the other connections we make in a meter can are not a concern.

Roger
 
JOHNEO99 said:
Where would that be?
Click to expand...

I asked where that was because in Antioch, IL they require two ground rods into can, thru pipe bushing to can lug.
At panel they only want bonding jumper between pipe bushing and bus.

They dont want other homes or businesses becoming energized thru the water pipe system by way of the neutral becoming energized. Which can happen. A few years ago my entire home became 240v line to neutral due to faulty transformer.
 
roger said:
John, if you make the GEC connection in the Main disconnect in a hospital in a locked down electrical, room is it accessible"

Is it accessible in a locked house?

Is it accessible in a prison?

A lock or seal does not render the connection inaccessible.



Notice a lock is not mentioned in the definition.

I would also ask why the other connections we make in a meter can are not a concern.

Roger
Click to expand...
I am aware of the code section but they lock is legally utility property here. I am not able to remove technically.
 
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