Bonding Neutral and Grounds

[ddaut]

I see many times where there is a meter and disconnect on the outside of a home. Immediately adjacent on the inside of the home there is an indoor panel with a main disconnect and all the circuit breakers. Most of the time grounds and neutrals are not separated in the inside panel. So they are bonded outside in the disconnect and also bonded inside at the main panel; usually less than 6 feet apart. It’s my understanding that neutrals and grounds should be separated at the first disconnect and stay separated after that. How bad is this and is there an exception to make this code compliant?


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[ptonsparky]

Yes, supposed to be at the 1st.

How dangerous? Good question. I haven't seen any buildings burst into flames because of only that issue.

Normally not something I would lose sleep over.

 

[qcroanoke]

Correct. Bond neutral to ground in the first disconnect. After that they should be separated per code.
Dangerous? Depends on who you ask.

 

[Seven-Delta-FortyOne]

If there is a length of SER cable between them, or PVC with wire, then real world, it’s not a problem. Code violation, but not an actual danger.

Any parallel current would be contained in the conduit or cable.

 

[augie47]

230.85 muddied the water a bit on that. IF the outside disconnect is an "Emergency Di connect" with a bonded neutral then the interior panel can have a N-G bond. If the outside disconnect is a "Service Disconnect-Emergency Disconnect" then the N-G must be separated on the interior panel.
Amazing how the electrons know the difference

 

[don_resqcapt19]

In our town there is always a parallel neutral path. We only permit RMC or IMC for service conductors and the neutral is factory bonded in the meter cans that are permitted by the local utility and again at the service equipment creating a path via the metal raceway.
Have never seen that be an issue.

 

[NoahsArc]

Around here, they're bonded at the meter and bonded at the transformer and a pipe goes between the two. The 3ft section between the meter and the panel is probably not the major issue unless that 1.5" RMC breaks apart somehow and the homeowner decides to somehow stand between it inside the rim joist cavity.

 

[qcroanoke]

Yeah. Not bonded at all is a bigger problem.

 

[Lioneye]

If there is a length of SER cable between them, or PVC with wire, then real world, it’s not a problem. Code violation, but not an actual danger.

Any parallel current would be contained in the conduit or cable.

Keep in mind, with parallel paths for the grounded conductor, not only does a portion of the phase imbalance flow Creeon the EGC, it also is present on the panel enclosures, deadfronts etc. It is a real world problem and should not be done. Good, safe electrical practices to avoid this are possible and practical, and should be followed. Teach your cubs the correct way, and why.

 

[jaggedben]

Keep in mind, with parallel paths for the grounded conductor, not only does a portion of the phase imbalance flow on the EGC, it also is present on the panel enclosures, deadfronts etc. It is a real world problem and should not be done. Good, safe electrical practices to avoid this are possible and practical, and should be followed. Teach your cubs the correct way, and why.

What's the actual real world problem?

 

[ActionDave]

Keep in mind, with parallel paths for the grounded conductor, not only does a portion of the phase imbalance floe on the EGC, it also is present on the panel enclosures, deadfronts etc. It is a real world problem and should not be done. Good, safe electrical practices to avoid this are possible and practical, and should be followed. Teach your cubs the correct way, and why.

In order to do a NEC approved service you have to have a parallel neutral path on all the panel enclosures and dead fronts. I have nicknamed it the unavoidable objectionable current.

 

[LarryFine]

Keep in mind, with parallel paths for the grounded conductor, not only does a portion of the phase imbalance floe on the EGC, it also is present on the panel enclosures, deadfronts etc. It is a real world problem and should not be done.

Keep in mind that the service neutral is re-established as the zero-volts reference point for the premises.

 

[JoeNorm]

I see versions of this all the time. Seems like it must be one of the most common violations. And apparently one of the most missed by inspectors.