bonding of the neutral and ground / breaker trip

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The electron man

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Dose the bonding of the neutral and ground in the main panel have anything to do with a breaker tripping ? Would the breaker still trip if its not bonded ?
 
Assuming you are talking about the GES, it plays no part in clearing faults or overloads.
 
It depends on what is causing the breaker to trip.

If overload or line-to-line or line-to-neutral fault, no.

If due to a line-to-grounded surface fault, then yes.
 
The electron man said:
Dose the bonding of the neutral and ground in the main panel have anything to do with a breaker tripping ? Would the breaker still trip if its not bonded ?
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Yes, if you have a fault to ground on a piece of equipment that has a equipment grounding conductor terminated to it. By bonding them at the Main Service panel it creates a low impedance path through the equipment grounding conductor back to the transformer through the neutral (grounded) conductor so that the overcurrent device clears.
 
LarryFine said:
It depends on what is causing the breaker to trip.

If overload or line-to-line or line-to-neutral fault, no.

If due to a line-to-grounded surface fault, then yes.
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So my follow up question is , in older homes with no ground what would happen if a hot would touch a metal box ?
 
HEYDOG said:
Yes, if you have a fault to ground on a piece of equipment that has a equipment grounding conductor terminated to it. By bonding them at the Main Service panel it creates a low impedance path through the equipment grounding conductor back to the transformer through the neutral (grounded) conductor so that the overcurrent device clears.
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So only in a ground fault it won't trip, if its not bonded correct ?
 
The electron man said:
So only in a ground fault it won't trip, if its not bonded correct ?
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There is a lot of confusion in the trade about grounding. Article 250 in the NEC is the largest article in the code book. When I first started in the trade I had different Electricians tell me different things about grounding. I found out over the years that a lot of it wasn’t correct. There are some very knowledgeable people on here…..however I think that if you really want to get a good grasp on how the whole grounding system works it would be to buy a book that deals strictly with that. There are books that have a lot of graphics in them that can make it easier to understand. Learn about it now and you will be ahead of the game. You will find out that being an Electrician is a lifetime of learning. Good luck!
 
LarryFine said:
The box would become electrically hot.
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This also points out why the EGC should not be connected between grounding receptacles in extensions to GFCI-protected non-grounded circuits. They don't want a fault to the housing of one plugged-in device with a 3-wire cord and plug to energize the housing of another device with a 3-wire cord and plug.
 
HEYDOG said:
There is a lot of confusion in the trade about grounding. Article 250 in the NEC is the largest article in the code book. When I first started in the trade I had different Electricians tell me different things about grounding. I found out over the years that a lot of it wasn’t correct. There are some very knowledgeable people on here…..however I think that if you really want to get a good grasp on how the whole grounding system works it would be to buy a book that deals strictly with that. There are books that have a lot of graphics in them that can make it easier to understand. Learn about it now and you will be ahead of the game. You will find out that being an Electrician is a lifetime of learning. Good luck!
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It sure is a lifetime of learning but I love it , I plan on getting mike holts course on grounding and bonding once I finish the electrical theory course thanks for the help
 
LarryFine said:
This also points out why the EGC should not be connected between grounding receptacles in extensions to GFCI-protected non-grounded circuits. They don't want a fault to the housing of one plugged-in device with a 3-wire cord and plug to energize the housing of another device with a 3-wire cord and plug.
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You lost me lol , very new to this
 
HEYDOG said:
There is a lot of confusion in the trade about grounding. Article 250 in the NEC is the largest article in the code book. When I first started in the trade I had different Electricians tell me different things about grounding. I found out over the years that a lot of it wasn’t correct. There are some very knowledgeable people on here…..however I think that if you really want to get a good grasp on how the whole grounding system works it would be to buy a book that deals strictly with that. There are books that have a lot of graphics in them that can make it easier to understand. Learn about it now and you will be ahead of the game. You will find out that being an Electrician is a lifetime of learning. Good luck!
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Also if you have any book recommendations please shoot them my way thanks
 
The electron man said:
You lost me lol , very new to this
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Suppose you use a GFCI device to allow use of grounding receptacles on a non-grounded circuit. Now, suppose you want to add a receptacle or two. You would use NM cable, which has a ground. You should not connect the ground wires to any receptacles or other ground wires. Clip them off.

Suppose an internal hot wire energized the external metal parts of a load with a grounding plug. If you connect the ground between two receptacles, the metal parts of a second load with a grounding plug would also become energized, interconnected by the ground wire in the new cable.
 
LarryFine said:
Suppose you use a GFCI device to allow use of grounding receptacles on a non-grounded circuit. Now, suppose you want to add a receptacle or two. You would use NM cable, which has a ground. You should not connect the ground wires to any receptacles or other ground wires. Clip them off.

Suppose an internal hot wire energized the external metal parts of a load with a grounding plug. If you connect the ground between two receptacles, the metal parts of a second load with a grounding plug would also become energized, interconnected by the ground wire in the new cable.
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So I am pretty sure that the equipment ground would still be required to bond all metal parts it enters. Does your state have a requirement to remove the ground wire. Here clipping that wire would get me in a bit of trouble and if I came to a new romex to re feed the old home run with a new grounded circuit to find that I need to completely rewire this new wire because the ground is clipped off I'd be mad. I think there's a mike holt pic showing connecting the ground to the gfi to bond metal boxes after the initial device.
 
I'll add you're still not supposed to extend the wire to the non grounded circuit without somehow getting a ground to it some other way like from a water pipe ( bad idea) or from a different circuit or ground wire from the panel
 
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