Bonding Pool Water?

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bphgravity

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Has anyone taken a look at Proposal 17-120? The accepted recommendation is to add a new section 680.26(B)(6) Pool Water. The proposal basically requests that the bonding of the water itself should be made by metal parts that will be in contact with the water or by adding metal plates to the water for thesame purpose.

1. Does a potential exist or can it develope between the water and the pool itself?

2. Can water actually be permanently bonded in this fashion, meaning all the water molecules will collectively take one potential?

3. Would you be comfortable adding a metal plate to the pool that will be in contact with the water and connect it to the bonding grid?
 
Re: Bonding Pool Water?

if this is true, and its as your read it, then how long before you see a device designed for such use on the market? and if so, i wonder if you can/could connect the dots!
 
Re: Bonding Pool Water?

17-165 Log #769 NEC-P17 Final Action: Accept ( 680.26(B)(6) )
__________________________________________________
Comment on Proposal No: 17-120
Recommendation: The Panel should reconsider its initial action on this proposal and reject based on insufficient substantiation.
Substantiation: The proposal introduces requirements for ?effectively bonding? the body of water. The term ?bonded (bonding)? is already defined in Article 100 and the method explained in the new requirement includes this term and words that are used in an inconsistent fashion with the currently defined term. ?Bonded water? and ?effectively bonded water? are two new terms that would require definitions for users for consistency and understandability. The requirement would be difficult to enforce for inspectors without the specific defined terms Article 100 or Article 680. The submitter has provided no technical substantiation or data (such as injuries) to indicate a need for such a requirement. The proposed requirement introduces test values in ohm-centimeters and minimum sizes of conducting elements (without substantiation) to accomplish the bonding of the water itself. The requirement as accepted also introduces semi-conductive material in contact with the water, but is not specific in the type of semi-conductivity required. The second sentence of the proposed language is redundant as the information is inherent to the requirements contained in 680.26. If the Panel is concerned about the need for such bonding perhaps a Task Group with a specific purpose and direction from the TCC is in order that can assist with specific parameters that are technically based and not based on what may happen.
Panel Meeting Action: Accept
Number Eligible to Vote: 10
Ballot Results: Affirmative: 10
 
Re: Bonding Pool Water?

I was having a bit of trouble designing an appropriate clamp for the water. It was my intent to have the first listed clamp but the water kept squirting out when I tightened it up. :D
 
Re: Bonding Pool Water?

17-165 Log #769 NEC-P17 Final Action: Accept ( 680.26(B)(6) )

Part of the Comment on Proposal No: 17-120
The submitter has provided no technical substantiation or data (such as injuries) to indicate a need for such a requirement. The proposed requirement introduces test values in ohm-centimeters and minimum sizes of conducting elements (without substantiation) to accomplish the bonding of the water itself.
Click to expand...
Can anyone show a need for this bonding or explain why the submitter would ask for this bonding without any evidence that it is needed or that it would increase the safety of a pool?
 
Re: Bonding Pool Water?

Wouldn't this (for a lined pool) be introducing a greater hazard than having the water isolated. Like the bird on a wire. I realize that with a non-lined pool the concrete would provide a path through the water and this plate would serve no purpose but adding it to a lined pool? I think isolation of the water would be the safest?
 
Re: Bonding Pool Water?

Wayne, let's suppose that the water is isolated and you are the bird on the wire. Now lets energize the water, no problem so far as long as there is no current flow through the water. Now get out of the water while holding the metal ladder or railing or . . . OK you do that, I don't think I want to put myself at risk.

The underlying reason for this whole thing was to help with creating an equipotential plane around and through the pool. I think this part was misguided but it was a good thought. :D
 
Re: Bonding Pool Water?

As a matter of interest, does the NEC require that a "leakage current collector" be installed in any pool installations?

The CEC requires one in each water inlet and outlet pipe of a field-assembled spa or hot-tub, where the pump motor is not marked as a insulated wet-end pump (double insulated).

Ed
 
Re: Bonding Pool Water?

Can you describe the leakage current collector or a link to one? What is it supposed to do?

[ July 27, 2004, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: tom baker ]
 
Re: Bonding Pool Water?

A Leakage Current Collector is a device designed to provide a ground current path for the current originating from the devices in contact with the pool water, such as leakage from a pump motor.
Normally, it is a length of copper or brass pipe inserted in the run of plastic pipe which is normally used to build these spas.

Leakage Current Collectors shall be:

a. provided at the water inlet, and water outlet of the spa, hot tub, or whirlpool, such that all water entering or leaving the spa or tub equipment flows through the leakage current collector;

b. electrically insulated from the spa or hot tub equipment;

c. constructed of corrosion-resistant metal;

d. provided with a copper lug brazed to the collector body;

e. at least five times as long as the diameter of the collector body; and

f. bonded to the supply panel or main service ground with an copper bonding conductor not smaller than #6 AWG or;

g. a device which provides equal protection when it is an integrated part of a spa or tub factory built for field installation or assembly.

Current collectors are not required in a system in which the only electrical component is a pump marked as an insulated wet end pump (which effectively seals the water from contact with any metallic part).

Ed

[ July 27, 2004, 05:36 PM: Message edited by: Ed MacLaren ]
 
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