I am a new member and have a question regarding ufer grounds. On a new addition/renovation we were required to install a ufer ground to the structural steel (rebar) in a new footing. The new footing is at the oposite end of the residence from the service entry. What is the preferred method to bond the ufer ground to the existing grounds. Can we run #4 AWG underground along the outside of foundation (about 40 ft.)to the service end of the home?
bonding ufer ground to existing ground rods
- Thread starter rdswartz
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charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: bonding ufer ground to existing ground rods
Yes, it is permitted; however, since the purpose of the grounding electrode is for disipations of lightning, contact with higher voltage lines, etc., why not take it in as straight a line as possible to the service?
The views and opinions expressed herein are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent the views of any organization.
Yes, it is permitted; however, since the purpose of the grounding electrode is for disipations of lightning, contact with higher voltage lines, etc., why not take it in as straight a line as possible to the service?
The views and opinions expressed herein are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent the views of any organization.
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: bonding ufer ground to existing ground rods
rd
This is an interesting situation. I have not heard of anyone having to install a ufer ground at an addition to an existing structure that already had a service. What type of grounding electrode system was existing? If you do not mind, where are you located? Is this something new in your area as well?
Pierre
rd
This is an interesting situation. I have not heard of anyone having to install a ufer ground at an addition to an existing structure that already had a service. What type of grounding electrode system was existing? If you do not mind, where are you located? Is this something new in your area as well?
Pierre
Re: bonding ufer ground to existing ground rods
The straightest (shortest) possible run would have the #4 AWG copper run through a crawl space and into a finished basement where I could run through (or along) existing joists to the service entrance. Although this distance is not significantly shorter (possibly 36-38')
Pierre, I am in northern NJ and we have had some discussion about the need for this. The local inspector said we needed to add it but did not address the details of what he wanted to see or how to bond to existing grounds. The architect said it wasn't needed on a renovation. The local electrical inspector hasn't returned my call, so I decided to seek out some independent expert opinions. I see no harm in adding it to my existing ground and the cost to do so is not prohibitive, so my thought was not to argue the merits with the inspector. If I am going to add it though, I would like to make the most sensible installation. I am not sure whether it would be best to keep the run on the exterior or the interior. The distance would be about the same, so if there are no problems with running it on the exterior, I could bury the #4 AWG below the grade surface and connect it to the existing loop at one of the grounding rods. I have at least two currently about 6 feet apart and 4-5 feet from the foundation near the service entrance.
Thanks for your help, I'd like to do this right, but I am having difficulty determining what that is! If it is buried on the exterior are there code requirements for the depth?
The straightest (shortest) possible run would have the #4 AWG copper run through a crawl space and into a finished basement where I could run through (or along) existing joists to the service entrance. Although this distance is not significantly shorter (possibly 36-38')
Pierre, I am in northern NJ and we have had some discussion about the need for this. The local inspector said we needed to add it but did not address the details of what he wanted to see or how to bond to existing grounds. The architect said it wasn't needed on a renovation. The local electrical inspector hasn't returned my call, so I decided to seek out some independent expert opinions. I see no harm in adding it to my existing ground and the cost to do so is not prohibitive, so my thought was not to argue the merits with the inspector. If I am going to add it though, I would like to make the most sensible installation. I am not sure whether it would be best to keep the run on the exterior or the interior. The distance would be about the same, so if there are no problems with running it on the exterior, I could bury the #4 AWG below the grade surface and connect it to the existing loop at one of the grounding rods. I have at least two currently about 6 feet apart and 4-5 feet from the foundation near the service entrance.
Thanks for your help, I'd like to do this right, but I am having difficulty determining what that is! If it is buried on the exterior are there code requirements for the depth?
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: bonding ufer ground to existing ground rods
Sorry, I was picturing various corners and offsets which would render the additional grounding electrode vertually useless.
After getting in contact with the inspector, have him give you the Code referance that requires the additional grounding. He may be a bit flustered since it is not required in the NEC. However, it may be required by local ammendments.
The views and opinions expressed herein are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent the views of any organization.
Sorry, I was picturing various corners and offsets which would render the additional grounding electrode vertually useless.
After getting in contact with the inspector, have him give you the Code referance that requires the additional grounding. He may be a bit flustered since it is not required in the NEC. However, it may be required by local ammendments.
The views and opinions expressed herein are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent the views of any organization.
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: bonding ufer ground to existing ground rods
rd
I am not against adding to the system. My concern is the customer being asked to absorb the cost if it is unnecessary. Sometimes the customer thinks we (contractors) are just trying to take their money. Does your local code require you to use the Ufer ground in new buildings?
Personally I believe the Ufer ground should be the primary ground on ALL new work, I believe with the changes in plumbing, and the addition of more electronics in use today the Ufer ground will provide a very good 'grounding point'. The cold water in new work, and after repairs is seeing the use of plastic more and more. Plumbers will remove the GEC from the water pipe, and then most times leave it hanging. Once a Ufer ground is installed, the chances of it being disturbed are not as likely.
Pierre
rd
I am not against adding to the system. My concern is the customer being asked to absorb the cost if it is unnecessary. Sometimes the customer thinks we (contractors) are just trying to take their money. Does your local code require you to use the Ufer ground in new buildings?
Personally I believe the Ufer ground should be the primary ground on ALL new work, I believe with the changes in plumbing, and the addition of more electronics in use today the Ufer ground will provide a very good 'grounding point'. The cold water in new work, and after repairs is seeing the use of plastic more and more. Plumbers will remove the GEC from the water pipe, and then most times leave it hanging. Once a Ufer ground is installed, the chances of it being disturbed are not as likely.
Pierre
Re: bonding ufer ground to existing ground rods
The local code does require Ufer ground on all new construction. Since I will most likely upgrade my service at some point from the existing 100 amp service, the inspector is claiming that I will need to add this to the new footings. I have a well with plastic water pipe coming into the residence(no copper), and have only two copper clad rods as my grounding system. I like the idea of adding the ufer ground as an overall improvement even if it is not specifically required by code. My thought was to run the grounding conductor around the outside of the foundation and bond it to the existing grounding rods, then continue into the service panel. Should I run the GEC through conduit or is direct burial acceptable for #4 AWG. Is #4 strand acceptable or do I need to use solid? Thanks for your comments
The local code does require Ufer ground on all new construction. Since I will most likely upgrade my service at some point from the existing 100 amp service, the inspector is claiming that I will need to add this to the new footings. I have a well with plastic water pipe coming into the residence(no copper), and have only two copper clad rods as my grounding system. I like the idea of adding the ufer ground as an overall improvement even if it is not specifically required by code. My thought was to run the grounding conductor around the outside of the foundation and bond it to the existing grounding rods, then continue into the service panel. Should I run the GEC through conduit or is direct burial acceptable for #4 AWG. Is #4 strand acceptable or do I need to use solid? Thanks for your comments
brian john
Senior Member
- Location
- Leesburg, VA
Re: bonding ufer ground to existing ground rods
A NO. 4 awg bare copper conductor would enhance the overall grounding electrode.
A NO. 4 awg bare copper conductor would enhance the overall grounding electrode.
Re: bonding ufer ground to existing ground rods
For what it is worth if you are going to trench around the outside of the home on one side then make the trench thirty or more inches deep and use number two copper. Since that conductor does not "encircle the building" it is not a ground ring but the electrons will not know that and will use it anyway. Taking that extra step will make the home more surge and spike resistant and will help to limit damage from lightning.
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Tom
For what it is worth if you are going to trench around the outside of the home on one side then make the trench thirty or more inches deep and use number two copper. Since that conductor does not "encircle the building" it is not a ground ring but the electrons will not know that and will use it anyway. Taking that extra step will make the home more surge and spike resistant and will help to limit damage from lightning.
--
Tom
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