BRAF Breaker Fried with Smoke

[FionaZuppa]

so in the post (http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=162397) i talked some about how the electrical contractor replaced GF breakers with AF ones to combat a tripping issue. its all Eaton Cutler-Hammer.

hmm, today i am in my service panel, but before i do my work in the panel (before main to off) i decided to hit the test button on each AF breaker. i have 4 of them so i start at bottom and go up. the 1st 3 make evident sound of the arm clicking over to the fault position, but the 4th one makes a brrrrrrrrrr sound and the arm didnt move completely into the trip position like the others. brrrrrrrr sound for about 3-4sec and some smoke so i clicked the main back to off.

so, is this just a bad breaker or is it possible faulty wiring caused the breaker to do this? i have this AF breaker in the off position (main back on), any reason it cant stay like this until i get replacement, or should i remove the breaker?

 

[Smart $]

...

so, is this just a bad breaker or is it possible faulty wiring caused the breaker to do this? i have this AF breaker in the off position (main back on), any reason it cant stay like this until i get replacement, or should i remove the breaker?

Bad breaker. Having let some smoke out, I have no doubt.

Lift the wire until you get replacement but leave the breaker in. Shouldn't present any problem leaving it in and disconnected on load side (as long as the case isn't melted and you inadvertently :blink: didn't tell us).

 

[FionaZuppa]

Bad breaker. Having let some smoke out, I have no doubt.

Lift the wire until you get replacement but leave the breaker in. Shouldn't present any problem leaving it in and disconnected on load side (as long as the case isn't melted and you inadvertently :blink: didn't tell us).

no case melting that i can see. smoke came out of the arm in front, etc.

 

[kwired]

Did you close it into a fault?

Is supply voltage within 10% tolerance of 120 volts?

Why are you replacing GFCI with AFCI in the first place? They are not the same thing, many AFCI's have some ground fault feature incorporated into them but it is not the same level of protection that NEC requires when it calls for GFCI protection.

 

[K8MHZ]

Did you close it into a fault?

Is supply voltage within 10% tolerance of 120 volts?

Why are you replacing GFCI with AFCI in the first place? They are not the same thing, many AFCI's have some ground fault feature incorporated into them but it is not the same level of protection that NEC requires when it calls for GFCI protection.

He explains it in the other thread. I have never heard of 'ring waves' before.

Can someone please enlighten me?

 

[FionaZuppa]

Did you close it into a fault?

Is supply voltage within 10% tolerance of 120 volts?

Why are you replacing GFCI with AFCI in the first place? They are not the same thing, many AFCI's have some ground fault feature incorporated into them but it is not the same level of protection that NEC requires when it calls for GFCI protection.

right, that is in the other post. i didnt replace them, the electric contractor did. i know perfectly well the diffs between GF's and AF breakers. GFI breakers are not a mandatory item as far as i know, but something GFI in the circuit must protect the 1st device and everything beyond that which is near water, per the requirements.

close it into a fault?? dunno, all i did was press the "test" button. 120v ?? yes, its at 120V.

the new Eaton CH BRAF's (green sticker) are std BR size. the ones in my panel now are yellow sticker and twice as long of a std BR breaker. i replaced the bad AF with a new AF today.

He explains it in the other thread. I have never heard of 'ring waves' before.

Can someone please enlighten me?

let google search be your friend for this one. in my case, we get waves when utility switches in or out old capacitor banks. see www.ep2000.com/templates/downloads/EPAppltnGuide.pdf, one of many that explain it.

 

[kwired]

right, that is in the other post. i didnt replace them, the electric contractor did. i know perfectly well the diffs between GF's and AF breakers. GFI breakers are not a mandatory item as far as i know, but something GFI in the circuit must protect the 1st device and everything beyond that which is near water, per the requirements.

close it into a fault?? dunno, all i did was press the "test" button. 120v ?? yes, its at 120V.

the new Eaton CH BRAF's (green sticker) are std BR size. the ones in my panel now are yellow sticker and twice as long of a std BR breaker. i replaced the bad AF with a new AF today.


let google search be your friend for this one. in my case, we get waves when utility switches in or out old capacitor banks. see www.ep2000.com/templates/downloads/EPAppltnGuide.pdf, one of many that explain it.

Sorry I did not read your other post, why didn't you continue conversation the conversation in that post since the subject did not really change much? That would have been less confusing to others.

GFCI protection is not automatically required because water may be present, but is common for water to trigger GFCI requirements. There are places where GFCI is required that are not necessarily because of water being present.

I did not pay close enough attention to detail - "closing into fault" would be turning the switch on with a fault on the line. I was more concerned at the time of turning it on with a low resistance fault, which would have drawn a high current and possibly would have made the sound you heard. Same thing could have happened with a standard breaker - but because of my lack of attention to detail I missed the fact that you were pressing test buttons. You likely had a defective unit, or it may have suffered damage from transients as well in it's logic circuitry, though I would put more money on defective unit.

Transients on the line from capacitor switching, large motor switching, transferring lines to different circuits does happen. Some areas is worse then others, and how the POCO has arranged things, in combination with what kind of users may be on same lines as you will have an impact. Whole house type surge protector installed at service or main distribution loadcenter is probably a good idea, as well as supplemental protection at equipment that may be more sensitive to these transients, to hopefully catch anything that makes it past the first device. "Inductive kickback" is a common transient voltage that happens when you open a circuit with inductive load on it. It happens when the energy stored in the inductor is released as the magnetic field collapsed when you open the circuit to the inductor. It is the basis of how early ignition systems of internal combustion systems generated the voltage necessary to create the spark at the spark plugs. Most of them today are controlled by electronic devices instead of a basic switching operation. Capacitors are in many ways similar - just the opposite effect to inductors and can cause similar effects - not sure I have heard a specific name for that situation (inductive kickback wouldn't technically be correct name but is still similar type of action).

 

[FionaZuppa]

the other post was about swapping GF's with AF's, and bad power. this one was about a smoking BRAF while using the test button.
i sent the BRAF back to Eaton. lets see what they can tell me.