Brain dead need HELP

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ceb58 said:
Probably between rough in and trim out the elect. or his helper "forgot" what they had done. The 20 and 15 were tied together luckily landing on the same phase in the panel. .
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This has been like that for 22 years.
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Actually, if they had been on different lines they would have noticed the breakers tripping as soon as they went to turn them on. They probably would have found the problem and corrected it and it would not have been like that for 22 years.:roll:
 
ceb58 said:
I found out I knew the the guy that did this wiring (dead now). I found the problem by just getting in the attic and tracing wires. Once upon a time in 1986 there was more remodeling done than I knew about. Bed room and bath added, kitchen extended and deck enclosed to make sun room. The elect. pulled a 20amp. circ. from panel to switch box ( I can only assume to power garbage disposal) in the box was also a 15amp home run to power light in kitchen, bath lights and recpt. in sun room.
Probably between rough in and trim out the elect. or his helper "forgot" what they had done. The 20 and 15 were tied together luckily landing on the same phase in the panel. I disconnected the 20 amp home run found the feed to the bath lights and disconnected from the 15 amp circ. I then tied the 20 amp HR to the bath feed and installed a new 15amp breaker. Now the kitchen lights and sun room recp. are on their circ. and the bath lights are on their own circ. This has been like that for 22 years.
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Im glad you found the problem and straightened it out. Hope the practice of 'shorting to ground or neutral' has stopped.
 
tmbrk said:
Actually, if they had been on different lines they would have noticed the breakers tripping as soon as they went to turn them on. They probably would have found the problem and corrected it and it would not have been like that for 22 years.:roll:
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That is true but it goes with out saying had they been on different phases they would have found it. I was more or less referring to the impedance issue and the breakers not triping. With every thing that was running on this circ. Over the years I wonder how many times had that circ. been pushed past it's limit and no one knew there was a problem:confused:
 
ceb58 said:
You are correct to a point. The fact is I was protected from shock or burn. The breaker was new. I have a $90.00 circ. tracer but i knew which breaker I was after. I know what the egc is and what it dose. The bottom line is if the ungrounded conductor would have shorted to any metal item with the egc connected it would not trip the breaker and just burn. My way of doing it may not live up to your standards but what i was doing was in a controlled environment, all circ. are now unhooked for the night even though they have been this way since 1986, tomorrow I am tracing the wires from panel to j boxes to find out what is really going on.
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If you had turned of the breaker and gone to the circuit and found the circuit still on, I think you would heaved saved yourself a lot of trouble. At that point you would have left that breaker off then turned off other breakers until the circuit went dead and you would have found out that you had 2 breakers on the same circuit. YES? Never rely on panel labeling. As it was, you were in effect trying to trip a 35 amp breaker with your welding experiment. I'm not knocking you method, Been there done that. there is not a person on this forum that has not done it so don't let them bother you.
 
Cavie said:
If you had turned of the breaker and gone to the circuit and found the circuit still on, I think you would heaved saved yourself a lot of trouble. At that point you would have left that breaker off then turned off other breakers until the circuit went dead and you would have found out that you had 2 breakers on the same circuit. YES? Never rely on panel labeling. As it was, you were in effect trying to trip a 35 amp breaker with your welding experiment. I'm not knocking you method, Been there done that. there is not a person on this forum that has not done it so don't let them bother you.
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Well i just hope people learn NOT to do it that way when they see the real damage they could have caused. There were some 'unsafe' things i did as an apprentice/past and that I would NOT dare even think of doing today!! Why cause i know better. When you learn better you need to do better. like you said with the breaker, he could have just turn off one by one and found out there was another breaker feeding that circuit even if he did not have the proper tracing tools to do the job. Hopefully he learned something here.
 
Highjacked!!!

Highjacked!!!

I think that's what Pierre called it, changing the subject to arrive a different point.

So how about these circuit tracers? I have never used one that I thought I could rely on 100% of the time, so a heat gun and a clamp has done the job. Do anyone of you guys/gals have a tracer that's successful 95% of the time and was definetly worth every cent??? Does it work for you even in a heavily loaded panel???
 
76nemo said:
I think that's what Pierre called it, changing the subject to arrive a different point.

So how about these circuit tracers? I have never used one that I thought I could rely on 100% of the time, so a heat gun and a clamp has done the job. Do anyone of you guys/gals have a tracer that's successful 95% of the time and was definetly worth every cent??? Does it work for you even in a heavily loaded panel???
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theres a lot of good circuit tracers on the market right now. i think ideal suretest is one of the best but a little pricey. i use the greenlee circuit tracer i bought for 550 dollars. it works just fine but takes a little practice to get used to it,
 
Cavie said:
If you had turned of the breaker and gone to the circuit and found the circuit still on, I think you would heaved saved yourself a lot of trouble. At that point you would have left that breaker off then turned off other breakers until the circuit went dead and you would have found out that you had 2 breakers on the same circuit. YES? Never rely on panel labeling. As it was, you were in effect trying to trip a 35 amp breaker with your welding experiment. I'm not knocking you method, Been there done that. there is not a person on this forum that has not done it so don't let them bother you.
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About 19 years ago I tried to trip a 20 amp 12v branch circuit in a house this way the 20 amp held but the Square D 200 amp main DID trip. That sold me that Sq D had a superior product.
 
electricalperson said:
theres a lot of good circuit tracers on the market right now. i think ideal suretest is one of the best but a little pricey. i use the greenlee circuit tracer i bought for 550 dollars. it works just fine but takes a little practice to get used to it,
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Ideal SureTest:confused:

GreenLee ='d $550????? It had better fix the darn fault as well!!!! I haven't done much research on them since I was disappointed with the ones I tried. I would of never imagined they went over $200, but if they work EVERY time, than maybe:cool:
 
76nemo said:
I think that's what Pierre called it, changing the subject to arrive a different point.

So how about these circuit tracers? I have never used one that I thought I could rely on 100% of the time, so a heat gun and a clamp has done the job. Do anyone of you guys/gals have a tracer that's successful 95% of the time and was definetly worth every cent??? Does it work for you even in a heavily loaded panel???
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The one ive used has been VERY acurrate. Amprobe tracer works great.
Its just that on these latest jobs the whole panel is not right!! so ive been looking for alternative ways to take care of it faster. So i hope this new 'circuit mapper' will work.
 
76nemo said:
I think that's what Pierre called it, changing the subject to arrive a different point.

So how about these circuit tracers? I have never used one that I thought I could rely on 100% of the time, so a heat gun and a clamp has done the job. Do anyone of you guys/gals have a tracer that's successful 95% of the time and was definetly worth every cent??? Does it work for you even in a heavily loaded panel???
Click to expand...
YES YES YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Amprobe 2005 stalk on Ebay you will pick up a used one for about 500bucks within a year or just lay out the 1200 bucks and call it a day. I got mine almost new for 400 on ebay it is by far the best tester I have ever seen. Totally pisses off any compettitive journeyman working near or around you it is totally state of the art best of the best. Amprobe 10///// loudmouth cant find the problem 0 since I have owned it. Found screw in wire ---2 inches. found burried outlet in wall ----------2 inches. And on and on and on
 
acrwc10 said:
About 19 years ago I tried to trip a 20 amp 12v branch circuit in a house this way the 20 amp held but the Square D 200 amp main DID trip. That sold me that Sq D had a superior product.
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Maybe...the instantaneous trip curves of breakers overlap in the sizes 200 amp and below. They are not the same from brand to brand. There also is a trip "band" that gives the range from "won't trip" to "must trip". The actual trip point can be anywhere in that range. Even when using all the same brand of breakers it is not uncommon to have the main trip without tripping the branch.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
Maybe...the instantaneous trip curves of breakers overlap in the sizes 200 amp and below. They are not the same from brand to brand. There also is a trip "band" that gives the range from "won't trip" to "must trip". The actual trip point can be anywhere in that range. Even when using all the same brand of breakers it is not uncommon to have the main trip without tripping the branch.
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Ya , GE has a very long trip curve on thier breakers, I believe for the smaller stuff ( like used in homes ) they have one of the longest trip curves, and Sq D one of the shortest trip curves.
 
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