Breaker Box - Bathroom

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Groovy

Member
I was talking to some friends at work about the wiring in my house. I mentioned that the Breaker Box is in the downstairs bathroom. To my surprise, I found this out to be a code violation. The bathroom includes a shower, toilet, and sink. The breaker box was in the bathroom before I bought the house in '02 and believe the work was done some time ago.

What are my obligations as a home owner?!? Do I need to update this or move the breaker box?
 

bphgravity

Senior Member
Location
Florida
I would discuss the issue with your home owner's insurance agent and a licensed and insured electrical contractor upon suggestion by your agent.
 

charlie b

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Lockport, IL
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
First, let me applaud your efforts to investigate this issue and to find out what (if anything) needs to be done. You have come to the right place.

I'd like to take Pierre's statement one step further. What he intended to convey, and what electricians and inspectors and engineers would have automatically understood, is that this was allowed until the publication of the 1993 edition of the National Electrical Code. However, every state, city, or other local jurisdiction has its own schedule for adopting each new edition of the NEC. In your area, for example, the 1993 NEC might not have been adopted until 1994 or even later. Some areas wait three years and longer before adopting new editions of the code.

So to be more precise, if this panel had been installed before your local area had adopted the 1993 NEC, then there would have been no violation in its installation, and it can stay.

My advice would be that you start (discretely and quietly) looking into the date that the panel was installed in its current location. I think that the only reason this would ever be important to you would be if you were to try to sell the house, and if the prospective buyer wanted to make an issue of it. You would be in a stronger position if you can show that the panel was in compliance with code at the time of its installation. You could then tell the buyer that they can pay to have it moved, if they wish.
 

charlie b

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Lockport, IL
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
One more thought occurs to me. I have heard of cases in which a panel was installed in an open area, such as in an unfinished basement. Years later, a bathroom was installed around that area and the panel wound up in the bathroom. If that is the case for your house, the important date would be the date of the remodel job that build the bathroom around the panel.
 

Groovy

Member
Thanks for the advice, it is much appreciated!

I will try to investigate when the wiring was installed. If anyone knows by chance, where would I find records of installation of the wiring? And when the 1993 NEC was adopted for my area?

Court House?!?
 

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
Try your local permits and inspection departments.

Roger
 

hockeyoligist2

Senior Member
Groovy said:
Thanks for the advice, it is much appreciated!

I will try to investigate when the wiring was installed. If anyone knows by chance, where would I find records of installation of the wiring? And when the 1993 NEC was adopted for my area?

Court House?!?
most likely
 

charlie b

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Lockport, IL
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
Let me mention why I suggested that you do the research discretely and quietly. At this point, I infer that you do not know when the panel came to be within the bathroom, except that it happened before you bought the house. Therefore, you do not know whether the project that caused this to be, whether it was installation of the panel or remodeling to create a new bathroom, was performed covered by a building permit.

Suppose, just for the sake of discussion, that the previous owner did the project himself, without getting a permit. Suppose you start asking the court house about the date the project was installed, and they reply "what project?" Suppose they discover that work was done without a permit, and tell you that you have to tear it all out. There are jurisdictions that will do exactly that.

So I think you should not walk boldly into that nightmare. You can use other sources. Ask the real estate agent that handled your purchase of the house. Ask the neighbors. If possible, ask the former owners. You can get information about the dates that certain codes went into effect from your local public library.

If I were a gambling man, which I am not, but if I were, my money (a small amount, to be sure) would be on the notion that you are OK as is, that no inspector can walk into your house and tell you that you have a code violation, and that nothing has to be done.
 

H.L.

Member
"If I were a gambling man, which I am not, but if I were, my money (a small amount, to be sure) would be on the notion that you are OK as is, that no inspector can walk into your house and tell you that you have a code violation, and that nothing has to be done."

There are suburbs in the Chicago area that require homeowners who put their houese up for sale pay an inspection fee to the town for a building inspection. They will also require that the homeowner correct violations.

H.L.
 
Some Michigan cities also require an inspection when a house is sold. However, they are not always consistant.
Case in point my son purchased a house then sold it several years later. The first inspection found no violations, but when he went to sell it there were numerous problems discovered. No, it was not wiring he installed, it was wiring that had been there for years. We spent considerable time correcting violations, some of them petty.
So an inspection might not have helped determine whether the panel is legal or not. As Charlie has stated you will need to prove it was acceptable at the time it was installed.
 

Groovy

Member
Well, after a little digging around.. I found the electrical breaker box was inspected in the bathroom in 1986. Therefore, I believe I am ok.

Thanks for your input! It was appreciated.

I am modifying some existing circuits in my basement, and plan to get inspected again. I didn't want to run into the problem of having to move the box.
 

adair

Member
The exact location (serviceability), proximity to wet location, panel/breaker types, and numerous other factors could come into play during home or muni inspections. My #1 concern is for loss of life or property when I conduct a Home Inspection.
 

Bill W

Member
I think it's important to move the location of this panel. There is a reason the code was changed to forbid panels from being installed in bathrooms. I know many breaker types do not work after exposure to too much moisture. Corrosion is another issue. I'm curious to know whether there is much corrosion in this panel.
I know changing previously installed code changes is not required, but this one seems particularly bothersome. I would turn it into a junction box, make my splices moisture proof, and move it to another room. :cry:
 

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
Speaking of panels and moisture concerns in bathrooms, would these items be subject to excessive moisture?

shower.JPG


:D :D :D

Roger
 

realolman

Senior Member
I saw this country comedian on TV once. He said:

I just got this hair dryer made in China. Those people must really think we're stupid. There's this big tag on it that says, 'Do not use in the shower.'

If you're standin' in the shower tryin' to dry your hair... we don't need you.
 

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
Michael, I didn't actually see this in person, it was sent to me from a local Electrical Inspector which was sent to him from a local Housing Inspector.

I have not been able to find out what happened as of yet, but I'm sure the correction was forced.

Roger
 
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