Breaker panel change out

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olly

Senior Member
Location
Berthoud, Colorado
Occupation
Master Electrician
I'm trying to determine a few things about a Zinsco panel change:

Is it common to have problems with arc fault breakers tripping after the upgrade? Anything is possible but is it common?

As far as bidding goes:
The panel is not labeled well so I would have to trace out every circuit. Located in the garage so
a pretty straight forward change out (no drywall) roughly 20 circuits. What would you bid this job? In Colorado where the Avg home price is $350K

Thank you
 
olly said:
I'm trying to determine a few things about a Zinsco panel change:

Is it common to have problems with arc fault breakers tripping after the upgrade? Anything is possible but is it common?
Click to expand...

Anything is possible, and yes, you will probably have issues with AFCIs tripping. It has nothing to do with the fact that the old panel was a Zinnsco, it has everything to do with how the house was wired initially and what has been done to it since then.

We dont have to AFCI protect anything when doing a panel changeout. As long as the BC conductors don't get extended more than 6', we put regular breakers in.

As far as bidding goes:
The panel is not labeled well so I would have to trace out every circuit. Located in the garage so
a pretty straight forward change out (no drywall) roughly 20 circuits. What would you bid this job? In Colorado where the Avg home price is $350K

Thank you
Click to expand...

Panel changeouts typically take one of my guys 6-8 hrs. The easier ones can be done in 4. Tracing circuits can be time consuming. It's easier with two people. You just turn one on at a time, run around and see what's on. If you have a second guy, he runs around while you flip breakers and label. It usually doesn't take longer than 30 minutes or so for 20-30 circuits.
 
olly said:
I'm trying to determine a few things about a Zinsco panel change:

Is it common to have problems with arc fault breakers tripping after the upgrade? Anything is possible but is it common?

As far as bidding goes:
The panel is not labeled well so I would have to trace out every circuit. Located in the garage so
a pretty straight forward change out (no drywall) roughly 20 circuits. What would you bid this job? In Colorado where the Avg home price is $350K

Thank you
Click to expand...

Are you replacing the panel with a newer one of the same amperage or upgrading to a higher current panel?

Yes, it's fairly common to have AFCI trip due to neutrals of different circuits being tied together. Troubleshooting possible AFCI breaker trips should be separate price from panel install and T&M.

AFCI arent required here on a panel change either unless it's being moved or part of a renovation, so my price would be far different than someone who was putting in a dozen AFCI. Also, some panels have GFCI breakers vs receptacles, and if it had a GFCI breaker for a spa vs a disconnect/subpanel GFCI, that would change the price as well.

I agree with the above on labor. Make sure the HO doesnt have a ton of stuff stacked in front of the panel or that it's all moved before you get there.
 
If some of the wires are not long enough do you splice them in the breaker panel or do like to set a large J-box? Its aluminum wire to boot. Would you buy the expensive wirenuts and switch it to CU.
 
olly said:
If some of the wires are not long enough do you splice them in the breaker panel or do like to set a large J-box? Its aluminum wire to boot. Would you buy the expensive wirenuts and switch it to CU.
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You can splice them in the panel. The AL wires that aren't long enough will need to be extended with copper using listed connectors. Technically Ideal's purple wirenuts are listed to twist AL and CU together, but that's a bad idea in my opinion. I've seen a lot fail. It's never good to have the dissimilar metals touching. I use Alumiconn connectors made by King Innovations. They are like mini Polaris connectors. The AL conductors that will reach a breaker or lug need deox paste obviously.

The Alumiconns have different torque settings for different size conductors too, so bring your torque screwdriver if you're going to use them.
 
Thanks for all the good info! Turns out I don't have to install AFCI's here either. In your opinion do you feel AL wire is pretty safe if stripped carefully and deoxed?
 
olly said:
Thanks for all the good info! Turns out I don't have to install AFCI's here either. In your opinion do you feel AL wire is pretty safe if stripped carefully and deoxed?
Click to expand...

AL wire itself is safe. It's how it's terminated that's the issue. It's almost never terminated on AL listed devices or wire connectors. I'd put money down that if you start pulling receptacles out in that house that you will run across one that has a loose connection and has overheated before you get too far into the house.
 
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