bring exsting installtion to current code

[Riograndeelectric]

is there a code article that states when an existing installation must be brought up to the current codes?
if you have an existing sub panel located in a commercial building and it was installed in 1950 or so and I go to add a new circuit and lets say a 20 amp circuit for receptacles and the panel and associated circuits tied into panel do not meet the current code but meet the intent of the code at original date of installation would this installation be required to be brought up to 2008 NEC?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

is there a code article that states when an existing installation must be brought up to the current codes?
if you have an existing sub panel located in a commercial building and it was installed in 1950 or so and I go to add a new circuit and lets say a 20 amp circuit for receptacles and the panel and associated circuits tied into panel do not meet the current code but meet the intent of the code at original date of installation would this installation be required to be brought up to 2008 NEC?

You just need to have your work to code. Now if the actual panel was not to code then you could have an issue with feeding a circuit from it.

 

[LarryFine]

is there a code article that states when an existing installation must be brought up to the current codes?

Not around here. The general rule is that, if renovation covers 50% or more of the building floor area, then the entire installation must be brought current.

 

[Riograndeelectric]

You just need to have your work to code. Now if the actual panel was not to code then you could have an issue with feeding a circuit from it.

so what if your panel does not meet the 2008 code or what ever code you happen to be on but did meet code when the panel was installed. lets say that your neutral is bonded to the Can which would now be a violation but was not a violation when it was installed

 

[Riograndeelectric]

how would you be able to explain to the customer that the existing installation would need to be brought to current standards>

would you have to go back and list each part of the installation . like starting with looking at Branch circuits,then going to bending space then on to the over curent protection feeding the panel?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

so what if your panel does not meet the 2008 code or what ever code you happen to be on but did meet code when the panel was installed. lets say that your neutral is bonded to the Can which would now be a violation but was not a violation when it was installed

I believe that was a violation when it was installed. If it wasn't then I would say you would have to correct it if you add circuits from it.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

how would you be able to explain to the customer that the existing installation would need to be brought to current standards>

would you have to go back and list each part of the installation . like starting with looking at Branch circuits,then going to bending space then on to the over curent protection feeding the panel?

I ran into this not long ago where the ho had enclosed a panel in a pantry (very small) and there was none of the headroom , height etc to work on the panel. I told them if they didn't go for the upgrade then I wouldn't do the job because it would fail.

 

[Cow]

how would you be able to explain to the customer that the existing installation would need to be brought to current standards>

would you have to go back and list each part of the installation . like starting with looking at Branch circuits,then going to bending space then on to the over curent protection feeding the panel?

That'll work.

"To do the work you request and pass inspection I need to correct this, this, and this." Seems simple to me? I'd definitely call your inspector and get the lowdown before you tell you customer anything, especially if you're unsure.

 

[btharmy]

The only inspection you need to pass is for the 120v. 20a. circuit you are installing. Calling for an inspect for a single circuit/receptacle is a little unusual around my parts anyway, it's a standard 2hr. service call then on to the next customer. If we all had to upgrade every panel, motor controller, wire fill, conduit support, working space, cable support on and on and on...every time on every job, we'd never get anything done. Not to mention no one would be able to afford to hire us to do any work. If, however, something is DANGEROUS, not simply wrong (there is a difference), then yes make them aware of it and insist that it be fixed or you'll not do the work.

 

[Riograndeelectric]

I was using the 20amp circuit as an example. if were adding several 20 amp circuits for lets say a new A/C Circuit of 30 amps or adding several new 120 volt lighting circuits. no matter what you are adding can you add or alter existing installations and not worry about having to bring it to current code if it meets the code at time of install.
how would the inspector know what article to site to make you bring it code.