Budget - Commercial Project

[Jimmy7]

I have been asked to look at drawings for a proposed commercial project in order to see if it is possible to bring the cost of the electrical down. I’m not bidding this project, I was just asked to look at it in order to help the designer. The building has classrooms, office space, and a small gym. What do you look for when to comes to decreasing a budget if you had to? I’m guessing if you were to switch from copper to aluminum on the service and feeders. Any other suggestions?

 

[Strathead]

I have been asked to look at drawings for a proposed commercial project in order to see if it is possible to bring the cost of the electrical down. I’m not bidding this project, I was just asked to look at it in order to help the designer. The building has classrooms, office space, and a small gym. What do you look for when to comes to decreasing a budget if you had to? I’m guessing if you were to switch from copper to aluminum on the service and feeders. Any other suggestions?

Without seeing why prices are where they are, it isn't really possible to help you. However, series rating gear, MC, free air cabling, free air fire alarm, generic fire alarm in lieu of proprietary, modular wiring system in the gym for lighting, all come to mind.

 

[MyCleveland]

I have been asked to look at drawings for a proposed commercial project in order to see if it is possible to bring the cost of the electrical down. I’m not bidding this project, I was just asked to look at it in order to help the designer. The building has classrooms, office space, and a small gym. What do you look for when to comes to decreasing a budget if you had to? I’m guessing if you were to switch from copper to aluminum on the service and feeders. Any other suggestions?

Why would you spend time on this if you don't get a chance to land the job?

First thought if why aren't the bidders asked to provide VE suggestions?

Check for ONE-NAME spec items....ltg, gear, etc.
Is the designer asking EC to provide SCC calcs? Break out this cost and tell owner to have his EE of record to provide this.
Get your ltg rep to see if any money can be captured in the controls or dimming packages.

 

[petersonra]

Without knowing more specifics it is hard to help you. AL wire is always a good place to start as is getting rid of EMT or rigid in favor of mc if that is possible.

I would be looking really close at things like panelboards. Depending on how much your supplier hates you there can be some big differences in cost between brands. And there might be some opportunities to shuffle things a bit and get rid of some cost.

Don't let the drawings force you into making expensive choices. If there is money to be saved make it clear to whomever is asking for this review that some of the excess cost is due to the design and the design needs fixing if they want cost reductions.

There is often a crap ton of money wasted on expensive lights when less costly stuff will work adequately. Dimmers are a good thing to eliminate to save money.

You need to be ruthless about it though. Just because you like something or like the supplier is not a good reason to keep it in place if there is a cost effective alternative.

Get rid of anything that is above code unless they need it for some reason.

In lieu of putting wiring in the walls consider a chase instead. It might look funny but good looks can cost money.

 

[electrofelon]

1. Aluminum MC for feeders and larger Branch circuits instead of pipe and wire.

2. Skip the wire EGC if that's spec'd

3. If fixtures are spec'd make sure they're not super pricey.

4. Look for masturbatory things like ridiculous grounding and bonding stuff and things like switchboards with fusible switches when panel boards could have been used.

5. Look for dumb specs like no multi wire Branch circuits, minimum Pipe or wire size, solid conductors.

 

[Knightryder12]

To be honest, other than light fixtures and aluminum wire verses copper there is not much savings in the electrical portions of a project. With lighting and receptacle control required by the energy code, it is hard to get out of using things like occ sensors, dimmers, etc. Like others have said, look at your light fixture package and minimum wire and conduit sizes.

 

[Hv&Lv]

Why would you spend time on this if you don't get a chance to land the job?

First thought if why aren't the bidders asked to provide VE suggestions?

My thoughts as well.

 

[electrofelon]

Why would you spend time on this if you don't get a chance to land the job?

Perhaps he was just hired as a consultant to offer a second opinion?

 

[MyCleveland]

Perhaps he was just hired as a consultant to offer a second opinion?

Jimmy7...stated... "I was just asked to look at it in order to help the designer."
This leads me to believe "designer" is a friend.
Taking Jimmy7 original question, I do not believe he is a paid consultant.

Unfortunately for Jimmy7, if he is successful will have to expose designers flaws or bad practices.
"petersonra" stated it best...You need to be ruthless about it though.

If he is not, he is helping no one.

 

[electrofelon]

Jimmy7...stated... "I was just asked to look at it in order to help the designer."
This leads me to believe "designer" is a friend.
Taking Jimmy7 original question, I do not believe he is a paid consultant.

Unfortunately for Jimmy7, if he is successful will have to expose designers flaws or bad practices.
"petersonra" stated it best...You need to be ruthless about it though.

If he is not, he is helping no one.

Why are you so concerned about jimmy's business model/pricing? What business of that is yours? I don't believe he asked anything about the business aspects of that side of things.

 

[MyCleveland]

Why are you so concerned about jimmy's business model/pricing? What business of that is yours? I don't believe he asked anything about the business aspects of that side of things.

Feel better...breathe.

...concerned, model/pricing? : Taking down a friend .. not a very good business model.
: Stepping into a terrible situation with no upside .. not a very good business model.
...What business of that is yours? : It is none of my business. I thought we were sharing advice and opinions.

Feel free to share your thoughts on the topic, but you did not read that post and take away he is a paid consultant.
If you don't like any of my comments, oh well. I will try and get you to edit mine going forward.

 

[petersonra]

What difference does it make why. He asked for help.

The why sometimes leads to clues about what might be possible, but given how little information the OP gave us to work with there really is not much specific that anyone here can do for him.

 

[electrofelon]

Feel better...breathe.

...concerned, model/pricing? : Taking down a friend .. not a very good business model.

"Taking down a friend"? Where on earth are you getting that from? The designers asked for help. Many designers and engineers dont have much hands on experience, maybe that's why. Maybe the designer doesn't know everything, most of us don't.

.
: Stepping into a terrible situation with no upside .. not a very good business model.

Why is it a terrible situation? How do you know there is no upside? What business is it of yours how he is being compensated or if he is being compensated?

Feel free to share your thoughts on the topic, but you did not read that post and take away he is a paid consultant.

I didn't conclude one way or the other if he was paid or not. It's none of my business and has no bearing on what the op asked

 

[Jimmy7]

I was asked by both the owner and designer to take a look at the drawings. I was asked not to spend much time on it, but just to give a quick once over. I am not bidding it because it is far from where I operate. I am being compensated for my time, but I’m mostly doing this out of courtesy and loyalty as both the designer and owner have been good to me in the past.