Building served by a feeder 225.36 "suitable for service" require a neutral?

[donw]

I'm designing a 480V distribution to some plumbing equipment that does not need a neutral. The building already has a 120/208V SES in it, but we now need 480V. The panel will be fed from another 277/480V SES on the property. I know I need a main breaker in the 480V panel and a grounding system, but when I read 225.35, it says disconnecting means (main breaker in this case) needs to be "suitable for service". Does it also need a neutral?

 

[augie47]

I wouldn't think so since you can actually have a service with no neutral.
If the device is listed as suitable for service that should suffice

 

[Elect117]

Out of an abundance of caution I would run the neutral, but it is not required. Odd things can happen when you don't bond the neutral to ground at the separate building but you did bond it to ground at the service point.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

What code are you on? I am pretty sure that the last code that required the second building disconnect to be suitable for use as service equipment was the 2011.
A feeder that supplies all line to line loads is not required to have a neutral pulled in with the ungrounded conductors.

 

[donw]

What code are you on? I am pretty sure that the last code that required the second building disconnect to be suitable for use as service equipment was the 2011.
A feeder that supplies all line to line loads is not required to have a neutral pulled in with the ungrounded conductors.

2017
"Where applied in accordance with 250.32(B), Exception No. 1, the disconnecting means shall be suitable for use as service equipment."

"(B) Grounded Systems.

Supplied by a Feeder or Branch Circuit. An equipment grounding conductor, as described in 250.118, shall be run with the supply conductors and be connected to the building or structure di8sconnecting means and to the grounding electrode(s). The equipment grounding conductor shall be used for grounding or bonding of equipment, structures, or frames required to be grounded or bonded. The equipment grounding conductor shall be sized in accordance with 250.122. Any installed grounded conductor shall not be connected to the equipment grounding conductor or to the grounding electrode(s). Exception No 1: For installations made in compliance with previous editions of the Code that permitted such connection, the grounded conductor run with the supply to the building or structure shall be permitted to serve as the grounded-fault return path if all of the following requirements are met:

I think you are right, I will not be using exception number 1, so suitable for use as service equipment isn't needed.

 

[Elect117]

Out of an abundance of caution I would run the neutral, but it is not required. Odd things can happen when you don't bond the neutral to ground at the separate building but you did bond it to ground at the service point.

I was way off on re-bonding the neutral to ground. My bad. I just re-read the section after you posted it.

 

[Little Bill]

I was way off on re-bonding the neutral to ground. My bad. I just re-read the section after you posted it.

I was just about to slap your hand!

 

[don_resqcapt19]

2017
"Where applied in accordance with 250.32(B), Exception No. 1, the disconnecting means shall be suitable for use as service equipment."

"(B) Grounded Systems.

Supplied by a Feeder or Branch Circuit. An equipment grounding conductor, as described in 250.118, shall be run with the supply conductors and be connected to the building or structure di8sconnecting means and to the grounding electrode(s). The equipment grounding conductor shall be used for grounding or bonding of equipment, structures, or frames required to be grounded or bonded. The equipment grounding conductor shall be sized in accordance with 250.122. Any installed grounded conductor shall not be connected to the equipment grounding conductor or to the grounding electrode(s). Exception No 1: For installations made in compliance with previous editions of the Code that permitted such connection, the grounded conductor run with the supply to the building or structure shall be permitted to serve as the grounded-fault return path if all of the following requirements are met:

I think you are right, I will not be using exception number 1, so suitable for use as service equipment isn't needed.

The permission to install a new feeder like described in the exception went away in the 2008 code. That only applies to feeders installed prior to the local adoption of the 2008 code.