Bundling wires in attic for long run

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ivsenroute

ivsenroute

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Florida
Thoughts on this one?

Can't wait to see the difference of opinion on this:)

atticwire.jpg
 
I'm not sure I would consider that bundling. They are certainly run together, but there still is some room for air to circulate.

I have come upon installations like this 20, 30 years down the line, with no signs of a problem.

If they were all tied together, that would certainly be a problem.
 
Of course, it doesn't look as if those wires are stapled down to the top of the trusses. If they had done so, it would have spread those wires out a lot more :wink:.
 
ivsenroute said:
Panel location was in the garage
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I assumed that, but would it not have been more cost effective to install a meter main and move the panel closer to the loads it serves?

Just thinking out load here. :smile:

I never really did single family homes but I have done a lot of condos and apartments, we install the panel in or close to the kitchen to keep the branch circuits short. :smile:
 
I'm not sure where the dividing line is, but I'd guess off the cuff that you can run about 12 or 15 #12 home runs for the price of 200 amp SER. I never really sat down to figure it out.
 
mdshunk said:
I'm not sure where the dividing line is, but I'd guess off the cuff that you can run about 12 or 15 #12 home runs for the price of 200 amp SER. I never really sat down to figure it out.
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I have no reason to doubt you, I really don't see pricing but I also see 14, 12, 10 AWGs and maybe some 8s and or 6s. :)
 
Looking beyond a "bundling" concern which is not as significant of an issue to me I am curious about the protection of the cable.

334.23 refers you to the AC section 320.23 which only mentions Floor Joists, Floor, Rafters and Studding where a guard strip is required.

In the photo, the attic space is not rated for storage and the cables are on the top of "Ceiling Joists" which are not mentioned in 320.23.

Call it a technicality but this situation is not really covered so we must look at the intention of the code.

Stapling would still be required at appropriate intervals but the 2x4 strip used as a guard strip is questionable since there are so many cable run together.

Would this pass in your jurisdiction? Has anyone ever has a situation like this and what would the alternative be for a setup like this with the main panel being in the garage.

I personally would have placed a sub-panel in a better location to elimintate the amount of wired going back to one area.
 
From what I read
I wonder what the Floor peneration looks like ? 334.80 Ampacity

334.15(B)

mentioned in 334 - 300.4(B)(1)

334.23 In Accessible Attics which pushs over to 320.23

334.17.

I read all this to just to refresh myself, I don't touch much of this stuff...

This response based on NEC 05'...
 
The garage is a 2x4 exterior wall and due to design and grading, the garage has 12' ceilings so all of the cables come down one 16" o.c framing bay.
 
ivsenroute said:
Thoughts on this one?

Can't wait to see the difference of opinion on this:)
Click to expand...

Not bundling in my opinion. These cables are not going to build up heat. To me bundling is when you can't see the cable in the middle of the bundle and they would not be about to ventilate to the air.
 
iwire said:
Seems to me the panel was not located where it could do the most good.
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Like pulling teeth in most Resi applications to get a panel near where it SHOULD be - even getting creative about it can add costs or complication thet the commitee frowns on. what is needed is better looking equipment that is invisable.
 
iwire said:
I assumed that, but would it not have been more cost effective to install a meter main and move the panel closer to the loads it serves?

Just thinking out load here. :smile:

I never really did single family homes but I have done a lot of condos and apartments, we install the panel in or close to the kitchen to keep the branch circuits short. :smile:
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Before the high copper prices the normal install is back to back service in garage.Really only takes maybe an hour to pull them home runs an extra average of 30 feet.No place is ever good for every home run and washer ,dryer,WH ,usually are in garage anyways.Now with new prices alum.service to panel might start saving a little money.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
Before the high copper prices the normal install is back to back service in garage.
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That is almost a non-existent installation in this area.

Of course we have basements for things like panels and heating systems. :cool:
 
ivsenroute said:
Looking beyond a "bundling" concern which is not as significant of an issue to me
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In this instance, I agree.

Call it a technicality but this situation is not really covered so we must look at the intention of the code.
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Yes, it is covered - assuming it is accessible, it is an accessible attic space. The ceiling trusses are the "floor joists" of the attic space.

320.23(A) ...Where this space is not accessible by permanent stairs or ladders, protection shall only be required within 1.8 m (6 ft) of the nearest edge of the scuttle hole or attic entrance.
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Stapling would still be required at appropriate intervals but the 2x4 strip used as a guard strip is questionable since there are so many cable run together.
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Why would the number of cables matter in regards to physical protection?

Would this pass in your jurisdiction? Has anyone ever has a situation like this and what would the alternative be for a setup like this with the main panel being in the garage.
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Yes, it would pass, and yes, I have done it. :)
 
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