Buried Cable

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Lauramacg

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I am buying a house in New York that is two years old. The C of O was issued two years ago. At the time of issue, and at present time, the white pipe that contains the electrical cable is just sitting in a ditch uncovered. I can't get a straight answer from the building inspector as to whether this is a violation of code or not. The ditch is around 500' long. I am concerned that this is dangerous and should be covered prior to purchase. Is this a national code violation, and if so, does national code supercede local code? Thanks.

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[ June 02, 2005, 09:44 PM: Message edited by: bill addiss ]
 
Re: Buried Cable

national code is a minimum, local codes can exceed this but not be less than.
The conduit should be buried but you should make sure that this was done under a permit and inspected before covering it. The city should have record of this if it was done under a permit.
 
Re: Buried Cable

I have never seen white electrical conduit. Sounds like you need to have this checked by a licensed electrical contractor.
 
Re: Buried Cable

Originally posted by shelco:
national code is a minimum, local codes can exceed this but not be less than.
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That is true with OSHA rules but not so with the NEC, states can make amendments that are less restrictive than the NEC.

For instance here in MA we can still run NM above a suspended ceiling in non-dwelling units. We also have less restrictive derating rules.
 
Re: Buried Cable

Actually, the conduit is inside a white pipe. The odd thing is that the builder of the house is a licensed electrician and I figured he would know the code. If anyone knows the code specifically, I would appreciate it. Thanks for your help.
 
Re: Buried Cable

How deep is the white pipe in the trench?

It is hard for me to be sure exactly what it is you have. If the pipe is something the utility put in or is under its jurisdiction, the inspector has little or no say on it.

Maybe they just forgot to send the trenching crew back to cover it up. Or it might be something deliberately left open so they can tack on to it later.
 
Re: Buried Cable

The thing for you to do at this point is to get your own electrical contractor to check this out, someone who doesn't know the seller. We have no idea what or where this is or what it looks like, at the very least it doesn't sound good at all. While he is there I would have him go over the house also. If the seller does stuff like this who knows what else he screwed up.

Just because the seller says he is a licensed electrician (any proof?) doesn't mean squat especially since anything he says is in his best interest, not yours. Conflict of interest for sure.

-Hal
 
Re: Buried Cable

The builder is licensed in electrical. The trench is around 18" deep. He stated that since the conduit is in the pipe, he doesn't have to fill it. The building inspector said it had to be filled, but then changed his story saying he wasn't sure. I figured he was just trying to cover his butt because he signed off on the job with the C of O. I figured there is some good ole boys network here, with one electrician knowing another, etc. I just want to have the specific code or aritcle # so I can present it to the building inspector. Does anyone have that?
 
Re: Buried Cable

Is this a drainage ditch?

Is the pipe crossing the ditch or running the whole 500' or just part of the 500'?

What does this circuit feed? Is this the service to the house, a well pump, an out building?

The best thing you can do is to hire a reputable electrical contractor to look at the pipe.
 
Re: Buried Cable

This white plastic pipe runs the length of the 500'. The actual driveway is 1000' and the pipe is buried part of the way. This is the electricity for one house. I am just looking for the code that states that this has to be encased in dirt.
 
Re: Buried Cable

Originally posted by Lauramacg:
Actually, the conduit is inside a white pipe. The odd thing is that the builder of the house is a licensed electrician and I figured he would know the code. If anyone knows the code specifically, I would appreciate it. Thanks for your help.
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The odd thing is putting conduit inside a white pipe.

Why would anyone do that? Why not USE or UF cable (depending on what is appropriate).

Did you mean a multiconductor cable and not a conduit is inside the white pipe?
 
Re: Buried Cable

I'm not sure what kind of cable is in the pipe. All I know is that the electrical service to the house is inside the white plastic pipe.
 
Re: Buried Cable

There is an exception that allows pvc to be ran exsposed.However it would then need straped every 10 feet.Also the catch is exsposed,if so much as 1 inch of dirt covers it then the 18 inches applies.Big question is who put this wire in ? poco or electrician.I find it hard to believe a poco would have unfused wires ran like this.Where is the meter ? before or after this wire and where is the first OCPD
 
Re: Buried Cable

Originally posted by Lauramacg:
This white plastic pipe runs the length of the 500'. The actual driveway is 1000' and the pipe is buried part of the way. This is the electricity for one house. I am just looking for the code that states that this has to be encased in dirt.
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Ask and ye shall receive.

Since the pipe is half buried, it's buried. Therefore, wherever it pops up for air, it's violating 300.5.

Don't buy the house until a different electrical contractor takes a look at it. ;)
 
Re: Buried Cable

Originally posted by jimwalker:
There is an exception that allows pvc to be ran exsposed.However it would then need straped every 10 feet.Also the catch is exsposed,if so much as 1 inch of dirt covers it then the 18 inches applies.Big question is who put this wire in ? poco or electrician.I find it hard to believe a poco would have unfused wires ran like this.Where is the meter ? before or after this wire and where is the first OCPD
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what 18" rule? the one that applies to buried conduit? this white stuff is not conduit.
 
Re: Buried Cable

The white pipe is a violation for several reasons:

1. It is NOT rated 90 degress Celsius or even 60 degrees Celsius.

2. It is listed for plumbing use only.

The electrical inspectors around here would flag this as a violation. We tried to use white PVC around grey electrical PVC where it penetrated a foundation and got red tagged on it.

Also, how the hell are you running 120/240 volts single phase 1000 feet without excessive voltage drop? The wires would need to be sized for like 1200 amps to supply a 200 amp service panel at reasonable voltage drop.

Or, does your house have a dedicated padmount transformer? In that case, the grey pipe inside of the white pipe would have primary wiring in it. There would be no significant heating unless what the utility has is old fashioned 2,400 volts.
 
Re: Buried Cable

Originally posted by mc5w:
The electrical inspectors around here would flag this as a violation. We tried to use white PVC around grey electrical PVC where it penetrated a foundation and got red tagged on it.
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On what grounds? White plumbing pipe is commonly used as a sleeve under streets and driveways. A 4" pipe comes in handy when you need to send a 2" conduit to the other side of the street. Who cares what temp it's rated for? What temp is the dirt rated for?
 
Re: Buried Cable

Just because the seller says he is a licensed electrician (any proof?) doesn't mean squat especially since anything he says is in his best interest, not yours. Conflict of interest for sure.
Good point. I've had a few customers who where "past" electricians, yet they where still going on past code--which doesn't fly.
 
Re: Buried Cable

Originally posted by mc5w:
The white pipe is a violation for several reasons:

1. It is NOT rated 90 degress Celsius or even 60 degrees Celsius.

2. It is listed for plumbing use only.

The electrical inspectors around here would flag this as a violation. We tried to use white PVC around grey electrical PVC where it penetrated a foundation and got red tagged on it.
Click to expand...
This seems a little extreme on the part of the inspector, but I guess it is a supportable argument. My argument against the type of installation you got red tagged on would not center around the white PVC not being listed for use as electrical conduit though.
 
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