bus bench electricution goes to trial....

[charlie tuna]

the death of a sixteen year old boy found dead near a "ungrounded" and energized electrified county owned bus bench went on trial yesterday in south florida. the investigators concluded that it was miswired by an unlicensed electrician and that a wire off the secondary of a sign ballast was in contact with the bus bench frame. the frame and system was not grounded.

the installing company did not require a permit or inspection since the work was done for the county and on county property. they are blaming the death on a lightning strike!

 

[charlie b]

Re: bus bench electricution goes to trial....

That is a truly regrettable set of circumstances, and a tragic result. But I would like to know who is on trial? The unlicensed electrician? The owner of the contracting company? The county planner who hired them?

I hope that someone comes forward with a clarification that grounding the bench (i.e., a connection to planet Earth) would not have stopped the tragedy. What was needed was a bond to the equipment ground conductor of the sign lighting circuit. Charlie Tuna: I know very well that you are very well aware of this. But what concerns me (even alarms me) is that these things are presented in court to people who would not understand the difference, with the information being presented to them by other people who do not understand the difference.

 

[charlie tuna]

Re: bus bench electricution goes to trial....

the mother and father are divorced. the mother settled with the advertising company prior to the trial. this is a very large advertising company--there main business is billboards throughout the country. in the mother's case the electrician was found at fault and the company was liable for his work.

now, the father is suing the company for the direct cause of his son's death. the company's legal team is banking on the therory that the boy was killed by lightning. during the bid process the county waved the requirement to have permits, claiming that it would just add costs to the project. this was a major mistake i believe! i think the unlicensed electrician depended on the driven ground rod and did not connect the ground back to the power source which resulted in a high resistance path back to the power source.

 

[BruceH]

Re: bus bench electricution goes to trial....

Very sad indeed. When are people going to realize that driving ground rods does not make installations safe if proper procedures are ignored? Hopefully, justice will be served.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: bus bench electricution goes to trial....

When are people going to realize that driving ground rods does not make installations safe if proper procedures are ignored?

This problem will continue as long as we use the term "equipment grounding conductor". This term leads many to belive that all you have to do to make it safe is connect it to earth.
Don

 

[pierre]

Re: bus bench electricution goes to trial....

The worst part of all this is that people will continue to die due to ignorance/stupidity... an ignorance/stupidity that should not be allowed to persist.

This is worse than cancer, because we know the cure!!!

 

[petersonra]

Re: bus bench electricution goes to trial....

Personally it bothers me that there is any emphasis on the term "unlicensed" electrician. It is just as likely a licensed electrician could/would have made the same mistake, assuming there was some mistake made in installation.

<added>
I am curious why you would need to ground a metal bench in the first place. Unless the sign was attached to the bench how would it ever get electrified in the first place? And how would you know what system to bond to?

[ April 28, 2005, 12:57 PM: Message edited by: petersonra ]

 

[charlie b]

Re: bus bench electricution goes to trial....

It sounds to me like a bus stop with a metal frame enclosing a waiting area with a metal bench, and with a sign light fixture above the frame.

 

[charlie tuna]

Re: bus bench electricution goes to trial....

the bus bench has two sides and a roof--it rains in florida. there is an advertising panel at one end of the structure. the frame is aluminum. the company that was installing the structure, then setting an underground service to feed the electric ballasted signage. the company did not have an electrical contractor's license--did not require permits and did not hire a licensed or trained electrician to wire the service. normally, the power company would require a call from the county prior to energizing the service.
the actual thing that energized the structure was a pinched wire due to the electric ballast not being mounted properly and fell off the makeshift bracket onto a secondary wire. since the structure was not grounded,it became electrified.
somehow the boy got between a grounded surface and the frame of the bus bench. the installer depended completely on the drive ground rod for a return path to ground....

 

[petersonra]

Re: bus bench electricution goes to trial....

so really the problem was not that the bench was not bonded but that the structure surrounding the sign was not bonded.

 

[charlie b]

Re: bus bench electricution goes to trial....

And the company is trying to escape responsibility by trying to convince a jury that it was a lightning strike? That is the second saddest part of this story, second only to the tragic death of the boy.

 

[petersonra]

Re: bus bench electricution goes to trial....

Originally posted by charlie b:
And the company is trying to escape responsibility by trying to convince a jury that it was a lightning strike? That is the second saddest part of this story, second only to the tragic death of the boy.

do you know for a fact he was not struck by lightning?

It seems to me that the chances of being electrocuted by a 120V circuit in such a configuration is pretty low, although not zero.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: bus bench electricution goes to trial....

It seems to me that the chances of being electrocuted by a 120V circuit in such a configuration is pretty low

Why do you think that?
Don

 

[charlie tuna]

Re: bus bench electricution goes to trial....

the voltage off the secondary side of a sign ballast is about 780 volts --- get wet --- and get between that and a return path and your on the way to --- electricution!!!!!!!!!!!! somewhere in the original story,the company was told that this electrician didn't know what he was doing---they ignored the fact!!!

one of my men(27 years old and a good man) was killed by a 120 volt "ungrounded" light fixture that the capacitor was loose and in contact with the fixture case. he was kneeling on a aluminum flashing (ground) and and touched the fixture. we measured the voltage between the fixture and the flashing---it was 730 volts. four feet of ground wire cost him his life. the fixture was installed by another contractor -- the installer said "he didn't ground it because he thought it was temporary"

 

[petersonra]

Re: bus bench electricution goes to trial....

Originally posted by don_resqcapt19:

It seems to me that the chances of being electrocuted by a 120V circuit in such a configuration is pretty low

Why do you think that?
Don

because if the return path impedance is so high that it does not trip the branch CB, it seems likely that just skin resistance would protect you. But I had not considered the much higher voltage of the ballast.

 

[BruceH]

Re: bus bench electricution goes to trial....

120 volts is enough to kill under the right circumstances. I was working on a outdoor j-box in the middle of a sweltering, humid day and I got nailed by 120v, I couldn't let go of my linesmans for what seemed like eternity, finally they shot 20 ft in the air and I felt like I got hit by a semi (I was soaked with sweat).I'm thankful to be alive today.

 

[iwire]

Re: bus bench electricution goes to trial....

Originally posted by petersonra:
It seems to me that the chances of being electrocuted by a 120V circuit in such a configuration is pretty low, although not zero.

With a little research I bet we can find 120 volt circuits cause the majority of electrocutions in this country.

Personally it bothers me that there is any emphasis on the term "unlicensed" electrician. It is just as likely a licensed electrician could/would have made the same mistake, assuming there was some mistake made in installation.

Sure anyone can make a mistake, however if licensing is required and this person ignored that requirement that to says a lot about the persons sense of responsibility.

There is a difference between making a mistake and simply not being qualified to do the job.

IMO ignoring the licensing requirement should make this a criminal matter.

To obtain a electrical license in most States requires a certain level of training.

To be unlicensed requires no training and while unlicensed person may be well trained it is much more likely (IMO) that they are simply a hack, a jack of all trades etc.

Some of the most dangerous wiring I see is performed by unlicensed sign installers.

Almost anyone can connect white to white, black to black and make an item work. The trained person (IE licensed) can do that and know how to make it safe.

 

[charlie tuna]

Re: bus bench electricution goes to trial....

bob, you make alot of good points. the company this guy worked for was warned about this guy's lack of knowledge and ignored it. the thing that really strikes me bad is in a lot of electricution deaths there's a lesson to be made, and the people responsible for the death are so busy covering up their mistake. this guy could have been licensed and the job could have been inspected --- if the county would have considered the possible outcome instead of considering saving money. many people working in the trade still consider the ground rod as a "perfect ground"! i see today, some installations where people have driven extra ground rods thinking the ground rod serves a purpose. the practice of driving ground rods at light poles as showed on the plans promotes this therory when in fact it does nothing! then think of not the installer, but the maintainance guy who repairs a broken junction box at a pole light --- the wire from the ground rod just increases his chances of creating a death trap not at the pole he is working on but maybe those down stream!

 

[bphgravity]

Re: bus bench electricution goes to trial....

Originally posted by iwire:
Almost anyone can connect white to white, black to black and make an item work. The trained person (IE licensed) can do that and know how to make it safe.

This statement is so true. As a matter of fact, in many cases one could connect black to white and white to black and it will still work. Thats the great problem with our line of work. There are probably 10 "wrong" ways to wire any given installation, and yet it will still work. However, there may only be one or two ways the installation can be made where it will stop working if a hazard arises.

I think that mindset is key determination of qualification. Getting something to work is only half the equation.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: bus bench electricution goes to trial....

Peter,

it seems likely that just skin resistance would protect you

If that were true we wouldn't need GFCIs. The skin will carry enough current to kill in most cases.
Don