Butler's pantry

[JDB3]

Bidding a house that has a "Butler's pantry" adjacent to the kitchen, with a framed opening between them.
The Butler's pantry has counter top space, upper cabinets, & a sink.
Should this be considered as an extension of the kitchen? I am thinking probably so, although there is no cooking equipment in it, it will probably be used to prepare & cook (using slow cookers, toasters, etc.) at this location?
Thanks,

 

[jxofaltrds]

Bidding a house that has a "Butler's pantry" adjacent to the kitchen, with a framed opening between them.
The Butler's pantry has counter top space, upper cabinets, & a sink.
Should this be considered as an extension of the kitchen? I am thinking probably so, although there is no cooking equipment in it, it will probably be used to prepare & cook (using slow cookers, toasters, etc.) at this location?
Thanks,

Kitchen. An area with a sink and permanent provisions for food preparation and cooking.

 

[JDB3]

Thanks, then by code the receptacles (except those within 6 feet of the sink) are not required to be on GFCI protection.

 

[iwire]

Thanks, then by code the receptacles (except those within 6 feet of the sink) are not required to be on GFCI protection.

If it is a considered a kitchen all receptacles serving countertops shall be GFCI protected.

 

[jxofaltrds]

Thanks, then by code the receptacles (except those within 6 feet of the sink) are not required to be on GFCI protection.

Read 210.8(A)(6)

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I don't see it as a kitchen...there are no "permanent" provisions for cooking. How ever that doesn't change much as the receptacles within 6' of the sink need to have GFCI protection and they must be supplied from the two or more small appliance branch circuits. 210.8(A)(7) & 210.52(B)(1)

 

[zbang]

If it's a large house or the owners plan to do lots of entertaining, I'd add extra circuits. A warmer here, a coffee maker there, and pretty soon it adds up to tripped breakers .

 

[mgookin]

... a "Butler's pantry" adjacent to the kitchen, with a ...,

That tells me some inspector is going to say it's part of the kitchen.

What's on the table here? The cost of GFCI?

Do you want to explain to a jury why there's a dead guy in the Butler's Pantry?

 

[iwire]

I don't see it as a kitchen...there are no "permanent" provisions for cooking.

I don't know if it is or not which is why in my post above I said 'if'.

That said, what are permanent provisions for cooking?

That seems like an AHJ call.

 

[Smart $]

...
That said, what are permanent provisions for cooking? ...

And that comes down to intent... because in the literal, technical sense, we all know nothing in this regard is permanent.

As to intent, I'd say it means that a space for a cooking appliance is specified either by design or designation and includes one or more outlets (not limited to electrical) specifically for the supply of energy to the appliance.

 

[iwire]

And that comes down to intent... because in the literal, technical sense, we all know nothing in this regard is permanent.

As to intent, I'd say it means that a space for a cooking appliance is specified either by design or designation and includes one or more outlets (not limited to electrical) specifically for the supply of energy to the appliance.

I agree wholeheartedly.

I have seen it said here on the forum that the presence of a range is permenant pervisions for cooking but a microwve sitting on the counter is not.

However in my veiw a microwave can be as permanent as a range. An employee break room is one application that you can count on a microwave being there and when it breaks it will be replaced. The same at the local 7/11 store, there will always be a microwave avaible to customers.

Now the argument becomes the differance between cooking and simply warming.

 

[Smart $]

... Now the argument becomes the differance between cooking and simply warming.

IMO if the appliance is capable of cooking, it doesn't matter if it is used just for warming.

 

[iwire]

IMO if the appliance is capable of cooking, it doesn't matter if it is used just for warming.

Preaching to the choir.

 

[mgookin]

I was looking at the pantry being adjacent the kitchen. Some inspector somewhere will say it's an extension of the kitchen. You can argue it forever.

How much does it cost to take the conservative approach?

 

[Barbqranch]

Do you want to explain to a jury why there's a dead guy in the Butler's Pantry?

The butler did it.

 

[jxofaltrds]

I was looking at the pantry being adjacent the kitchen. Some inspector somewhere will say it's an extension of the kitchen. You can argue it forever.

How much does it cost to take the conservative approach?

OP said that a sink is in the space.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

...
I have seen it said here on the forum that the presence of a range is permenant pervisions for cooking but a microwve sitting on the counter is not. ...

If the microwave is a permanent provision for cooking, then there are a lot of hotel suites that are really dwelling units.

 

[GoldDigger]

If the microwave is a permanent provision for cooking, then there are a lot of hotel suites that are really dwelling units.

That might depend on whether there is a sink in the same room as the microwave.

 

[iwire]

If the microwave is a permanent provision for cooking, then there are a lot of hotel suites that are really dwelling units.

Yes

 

[Smart $]

If the microwave is a permanent provision for cooking, then there are a lot of hotel suites that are really dwelling units.

Yes

Would that change anything? I'm thinking not. Some may think 310.15(B)(7) could be permitted...??? The mention of x-family dwellings is keeping me on the "not" side of the fence.