I have an inspector who wants documentation that a T&B crimp we use is listed for grounding. In my case it's the Blackburn 54725 for attaching a #6 and a #4 GEC together. The only thing I can find is that it's listed under UL E9809 and UL approved for direct burial. To me, if I saw the words direct burial it would be safe to assume that grounding would go without saying. Am I missing something here? Does the crimp need to be listed under UL 467? The snark in me wants to push back and ask him to show me that wire is listed for grounding...
C Crimp Listed For Grounding?
- Thread starter sketchy
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Placerville, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Retired PV System Designer
The only question I would consder legitimate is whether the crimp is officially recognized as irreversible. 
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
If it is a listed connector, it does not need to be listed for grounding and bonding. See 250.8(1) all listed pressure connectors are suitable for grounding and a crimp type connector is a pressure connector.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
As Don stated if it's a listed pressure connector it is already code compliant for bonding and grounding. If you can provide a reference to the inspector that says it's listed than that's all that's required by 250.8(A)(1).
ptonsparky
Tom
- Occupation
- EC - retired
Some inspectors really need to find something else to do. Like unemployment.
Dsg319
Senior Member
- Location
- West Virginia
- Occupation
- Wv Master “lectrician”
Or the OP could ask for “documentation” of inspectors license lol.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Print out the code section in post #5 and ask what part of listed pressure connectors doesn't he understand.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
Don't know what the difference is between products in OP and those in this catalog, but presumably everything in there is listed for grounding
Didn't look too thoroughly but seems to be different catalog numbers for otherwise similar C taps to those in OP.
Didn't look too thoroughly but seems to be different catalog numbers for otherwise similar C taps to those in OP.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
250.64 (C) contains the words "listed as grounding and bonding equipment". I take that to mean other connector types (grounded conductors or not) can be used for other than grounding electrode conductors.
I have pointed out 250.8(A)(1) but his response was "well then why does (3) say listed for grounding and bonding?". I also pointed out that rebar, copper pipe, building steel, gas lines aren't "listed" for grounding either but the code says we have to bond to them. They're being difficult just for the sake of it.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
Are you using it to splice a GEC? I think that is only place it must be listed for grounding and bonding and it says that in 250.64(C). Bonding jumpers or other grounding connections can use anything mentioned in 250.8(A).
Burndy has similar but without the G in the catalog number. I don't believe those are listed for grounding and bonding, though not sure what the difference really is.
wwhitney
Senior Member
- Location
- Berkeley, CA
- Occupation
- Retired
To which the answer is "doesn't matter, one of the following means pick any single item, meeting that description is sufficient." Or if there are in fact two different UL listing standards for pressure connectors, you could say "(1) covers products listed to UL XXX, and (3) covers products listed to UL YYY; either one is allowed."
However, it is weird that 250.8(A)(3) looks to be redundant with 250.8(A)(1) and could be deleted. The current list originated in the 2008 NEC. So if you want to try to answer this question (which shouldn't need answering), you could try looking at the original proposal for the 2008 NEC. Or if you're lucky, there will have been a proposal since then to delete 250.8(A)(3), and the CMP response would shed some light on the question.
Cheers, Wayne
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
But if splicing a GEC then the wording of 250.64(C) also applies. That section doesn't have the same list of options.
ptonsparky
Tom
- Occupation
- EC - retired
I always make one of the GECs continuous, to the first electrode. Rods, Pipe, Ufer, etc.
All others are taped from it with crimps.
Rods we try to run one conductor through the first clamp to the second. My choice. Not required.
All others are taped from it with crimps.
Rods we try to run one conductor through the first clamp to the second. My choice. Not required.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
Which is fine, but those are bonding jumpers and do not even need to be an irreversible connection method. Just the GEC needs irreversible splicing, yet the actual connection to the electrode can be an irreversible method. I have no idea why.
wwhitney
Senior Member
- Location
- Berkeley, CA
- Occupation
- Retired
Yes, correct, reviewing the OP I see that is the application, so 250.64(C) applies. So as long as the splice is really in "the" GEC, and can't instead be construed as being in a bonding jumper (e.g. bonding jumper to GEC), then the OP needs an "irreversible compression-type connector(s) listed as grounding and bonding equipment". In which case either the Blackburn 54725 needs to shown to be listed under UL 467, or it needs to be changed out for a different splice that is.
Cheers, Wayne
- Status